What's Up?

Just wanted to mention a few things about how amazon.com should not allow books that have been retired, either by lulu.com, tatepublishing.com, or by createspace.com and so on to remain on their for sale list. It seems that, instead of just taking the listing off of their website actually retiring the title never really happens. Even after a title has been retired for over eight weeks.

 

Anyone else a V.I.P on free-ebooks.net? They seem to have canceled memberships somehow. Even though I was paid up as a V.I.P for life. Supposedly anyway. Just curious to see if this has been the case with anyone else from that site. My publishing there are now inaccessible to me. Imagine that.

 

I also had to change the title of my book, "The Mighty Companion" after a religious zealot hijacked it and formed a monastery? Go figure? So, now its, "Journey Through Destiny". Sort of a last ditch effort to finish my novel once and for all. The hardcover sold here on lulu.com still has its original title as, "The Time Walkers". 

 

Thus, the need to have retired books removed from amazon.com listings. What a pain that's turned out to be. Same book. Three titles. What a mess...Although the story is nice, trying to make since out of the amazon.com sales page is next to impossible. All the titles from tatepublishing.com have been retired also, but still they remain for sale on amazon.com. 

 

In my opinion, the copyright belongs to me. I should say who and what is listed on my sales page. Besides, I don't receive any royalties for all of the books listed there that have been retired. So how can they still be listed as available? I mean, supposedly without any sales the book should be removed once retired. Right?

 

Used copies are supposedly still circulating but without any royalties to speak of I smell a rat. So, I ask myself?

 

"what's up with that?" krb.crb

 

 

Comments


  • Bolter1224 wrote:

    All the titles from tatepublishing.com have been retired also, but still they remain for sale on amazon.com. 

     

    Are these physical copies or are they POD books? If the former, if Amazon has physical copies in their inventory, they can keep them on sale. If they are available only via print on demand, perhaps someone in these forums can advise you. Perhaps it simply takes some time for Amazon's system to catch up. How long has this book been "retired"?

     

    In my opinion, the copyright belongs to me. I should say who and what is listed on my sales page. 

     

    Copyright has absolutely nothing to do with it.

     

    Used copies are supposedly still circulating but without any royalties to speak of I smell a rat. So, I ask myself?

     

    "what's up with that?" krb.crb

     

    Why shouldn't used copies be available? And you do not get royalties for those.

     


     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • potetjppotetjp Professor

    The first and now obsolete edition of my Numbers and Units in Old Tagalog is still offered by on-line bookstores,  although I retired it a long time ago. I couldn't care less because they can't sell it since it no longer exists. 

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    As we keep saying, most book sales sites such as Amazon keep out of print books advertised because potential alternate third parties may still have copies, new or used, and it will say so on the out of print book's page. It's a bit strange that it still does it with POD books, but some one may be selling a used one. Who knows?

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    Anyone else a V.I.P on free-ebooks.net? They seem to have canceled memberships somehow. Even though I was paid up as a V.I.P for life. Supposedly anyway. Just curious to see if this has been the case with anyone else from that site. My publishing there are now inaccessible to me. Imagine that.

     

    Your 'The Mighty Companion' e-book does seem to be free on so many places.

     

    I also had to change the title of my book, "The Mighty Companion" after a religious zealot hijacked it and formed a monastery?

     

    Erm, or just a coincidence? It is a truly God-awful site though, it goes on and on forever with no obvious purpose. https://mightycompanion.wordpress.com/page/9/

     

    Go figure? So, now its, "Journey Through Destiny". Sort of a last ditch effort to finish my novel once and for all. The hardcover sold here on lulu.com still has its original title as, "The Time Walkers". 

     

    Why do you keep changing the title? And how come it's on sale if you have not finished it?

     

    Thus, the need to have retired books removed from amazon.com listings. What a pain that's turned out to be. Same book. Three titles. What a mess...

     

    And who's fault is that?

     

    In my opinion, the copyright belongs to me.

     

    As Ron says, it's nothing to do with Copyright because they have not been copied. They are there because you put them there.

     

    I should say who and what is listed on my sales page.

     

    It's not your sales page, it's Amazon's.

     

    Besides, I don't receive any royalties for all of the books listed there that have been retired.

     

    Obviously. You only get them on the sales of books.

     

    So how can they still be listed as available?

     

    They arent.

     

    Currently unavailable.
    We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.

     

    I mean, supposedly without any sales the book should be removed once retired. Right?

     

    No.

     

    Used copies are supposedly still circulating but without any royalties to speak of I smell a rat. So, I ask myself?

     

    No. Secondhand ones are not yours. They belong to the seller. Just the same as a used car.

     

    What it boils down to is you have published and retired the same book 3 times under 3 titles, and they are all listed. Now you want to publish the same book again with another new title and that will be listed with them. It's your own fault. And you should not keep changing titles anyway.


  • Bolter1224 wrote:

     

     

    I also had to change the title of my book, "The Mighty Companion" after a religious zealot hijacked it and formed a monastery? Go figure? So, now its, "Journey Through Destiny". Sort of a last ditch effort to finish my novel once and for all. The hardcover sold here on lulu.com still has its original title as, "The Time Walkers". 

     

    Why would this make you change the title of your book? There seems to be no relation between the religious site and your book.

     

    By the way, the publication date on your Lulu edition of "Mighty Companion" is October 6, 2015. The religious blog site of the same name has been around since at least February 2015. It's hard to imagine how its owner could have hijacked your title.

     

    As Kevin has rightly suggested, constantly changing the title of your book only serves to confuse potential readers and does you and your book no service at all.

     

    There are a great many books out there with the same title but about different subjects. For instance, if you go to Amazon and search for "The Art of Space" you will get both my book and a book about interior decorating! But since the books are about totally different subjects, there is no room for confusion.

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • The title, "The Mighty Companion" was originally published when it was completed in November of 2014 when I used it as a winning entry during NaNoWriMo of that year. But, "nice try".

     

    As far as the rest goes, I'm fully aware of whose fault it is. The only problem now is that I never received the royalties for those books upon that titles original sale. That's my whole point to all of this. 

     

    Besides, my questions are basically rhetorical because I really didn't set out to make any money on my novels in the first place. A little recognition for a job well done would suffice.  

     

    I swear, writing and self publishing a book has brought on more animosity toward me from people who seem to dictate forums and free book reading webpages than I ever deemed possible. The fact that constant criticism and social hate or injustice seems to prevail. All I wanted to do was sell a story. Maybe be recognized by some one in any case. This has never happened. I've never heard not one person say, "I read your book for free and enjoyed it content". 

     

    I know what your going to say about the crappy free chair again. That's a given with you. My problem is, "writing and self publishing stories on the Internet has basically opened myself up to an extreme amount of negativity. If I had to do it all over again I would still have written the book to its completion but without making a single error."

     

    My question is, "Where's the learning curb? How can a person be expected to accomplish finishing a novel from, "A" to "B" without any personal experience or education into such an event?" 

     

    Where does the story take a wrong turn and negatively start to effect the person who was dumb enough to think that they could flourish in a creative society? I feel like I should just say, "Thanks for nothing, and that, "Everything is my fault." when all I did was publish a story.

     

    Is it because amazon forces you into listing it as available on their webpage if you want to be able to order copies of the story and expect cash in return? Because I never asked for anything for it. I was forced into setting a price for the listing. Maybe I just wanted a few books for my close friends and family? How does that add up to someone reselling a book that I never actually received royalties for in the first place. You see what I'm saying?

     

    Writing a novel has ruined my reputation as a person and has effected my life in a negative way. 

     

     


  • Bolter1224 wrote:

    The title, "The Mighty Companion" was originally published when it was completed in November of 2014 when I used it as a winning entry during NaNoWriMo of that year. But, "nice try".

     

    It still doesn't matter. Since there is obviously no way in which the religious blog site and your book could be confused, there was no reason to change the title. Just as there was no reason to change the title of "The Art of Space" just because there was another book available with the same name. There was no way they could be confused.

     

    As far as the rest goes, I'm fully aware of whose fault it is. The only problem now is that I never received the royalties for those books upon that titles original sale. That's my whole point to all of this. 

     

    That seems to be something you need to take up with Amazon. Or do you receive your royalties instead from Tate (who has a "not recommended" listing on Preditors & Editors)?

     

    Besides, my questions are basically rhetorical because I really didn't set out to make any money on my novels in the first place. A little recognition for a job well done would suffice.  

     

    If you don't want to make any money, then why all the complaints about not getting royalties?

    And I kind of hate to put it this way, but one only gets recognition for a job well done when the job is well done. You tell a pretty good story, it seems, but there is a lot of work you need to do and specific examples of this have been pointed out. Your constant refusal to listen to advice and the animosity with which you react to it does not bode well for doing a good job.

     

    A very large part of my living comes from writing books for traditional publishers. No matter how clean I think a finished MS is, it always comes back from the editors with requests for corrections of some kind or another. Sometimes quite a lot. I don't take these as personal attacks but instead as part of the process of making my books as good as they can possibly be.

     

    I have also had my share of pretty brutal reviews, too. These are painful---and sometimes anger-provoking---but it's part of the game. And sometimes a negative review, however hard it might be to read, contains something to think about...

     

    I swear, writing and self publishing a book has brought on more animosity toward me from people who seem to dictate forums and free book reading webpages than I ever deemed possible. The fact that constant criticism and social hate or injustice seems to prevail. All I wanted to do was sell a story.

     

    I presume you meant "tell a story." Well, go ahead and tell it. No one is stopping you. All anyone here has ever said is that if you want to tell it in print and expect people to pay money for the privilege of reading it (whether or not you make any money on the deal), then you have an obligation to tell the story with as much craftsmanship as you possibly can.

     

    Maybe be recognized by some one in any case. This has never happened. I've never heard not one person say, "I read your book for free and enjoyed it content". 

     

    Just because a book is free doesn't mean someone is obligated to like it. And once someone does have a copy of your book, it is your responsibility to have written something likeable. Your books have been available for quite a long  time. If you haven't yet gotten any positive feedback, perhaps you are pointing the finger of blame in the wrong direction.

     

    I know what your going to say about the crappy free chair again. That's a given with you. My problem is, "writing and self publishing stories on the Internet has basically opened myself up to an extreme amount of negativity. If I had to do it all over again I would still have written the book to its completion but without making a single error."

     

    No. I have never seen an initial response to any of your books be anything but polite, courteous and helpful. I certainly have never, to the best of my knowledge, been anything but fair with you. Many of the discussions in the forums, however, usually quickly degenerate because you take any criticism, however well meant, as a personal attack...and respond accordingly.

     

    My question is, "Where's the learning curb? How can a person be expected to accomplish finishing a novel from, "A" to "B" without any personal experience or education into such an event?" 

     

    That's exactly what the people who critique your books are trying to accomplish. Being critiqued and taking advice and suggestions from more experienced authors is precisely how one gains experience and education. It's how I learned to write.

     

    Where does the story take a wrong turn and negatively start to effect the person who was dumb enough to think that they could flourish in a creative society? I feel like I should just say, "Thanks for nothing, and that, "Everything is my fault." when all I did was publish a story.

     

    Is it because amazon forces you into listing it as available on their webpage if you want to be able to order copies of the story and expect cash in return?

     

    What else do you expect Amazon to do? Your book is no different than any of the other products the company offers. If you want to be able to order copies of your book but otherwise keep access to the book private, you can do that on Lulu. Of course, you do understand that you don't really get royalties on books you purchase yourself because all the money you spend on the book comes from you in the first place?

     

    Because I never asked for anything for it. I was forced into setting a price for the listing. Maybe I just wanted a few books for my close friends and family?

     

    Then order copies for yourself from Lulu and pass them around as gifts. Amazon is not in the business to give away free books.

     

    How does that add up to someone reselling a book that I never actually received royalties for in the first place. You see what I'm saying?

     

    Anyone can resell a used book. You get nothing for that. It is not the original purchaser's fault that you didn't receive a royalty. That's something you need to take up with Amazon.

     

    Writing a novel has ruined my reputation as a person and has effected my life in a negative way.

     

    Well, that is unfortunate. However, I think you may want to sit back, take a deep breath and reassess how you respond to criticism and advice.


     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • What should I say? "Better late than never?" My book has already been through the cleaners. I'm not about to pay someone to do it again. The story is finished. Like it or not. criticism at this point is all I get. As far as learning goes, my novel stands. Negative critique or not, the book is finished as is! I'm basically not going to change it for you or anyone else. Like it or not that's the way it is. Like I said, "the question's were rhetorical." The book is finished, "as is". Like it or not.

     

  • I rest my case.

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    There are a great many books out there with the same title but about different subjects. For instance, if you go to Amazon and search for "The Art of Space" you will get both my book and a book about interior decorating! But since the books are about totally different subjects, there is no room for confusion.

     

    And of course there's also different writer's names on the books and different covers, which should be a clue they are not the same. Not to mention any Description and Preview.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    I rest my case.

     

    Smiley LOL

     

    I recall your Counterweight book Bolter, and I am sure Ron does also, and we pointed out in great polite detail using 1000s of words that, and this may be as offensive as some of the things you say you see on line about it, that it is in fact poorly researched nonsense, that's not even your own original idea.

     

    I am sorry to say that when you publish such books you cannot expect anything else. It's a bit like publishing 'I was abducted by gomes' books. Would Danikan moan that his books were slated if he had not made millions from them? I am sure he did not moan because he did make millions, even though slated. (And later admitted it was nonsense and ideas he'd stolen from lesser known obscure books.)

     

    But I am sure you wont see the point, again.

  • "The Art of Space."

     

    I'm imagining a book of illustrations, each depicting an empty room.

     

    One of them, done in the style of Dali, features melting windows...

  • Sometimes vendors on Amazon who list a book as second hand are actually selling new ones. Why they do this I have no idea, but they do. They also often offer these books at ridiculous prices.

     

    At the moment someone called DailyDeal is currently offering my book as both new and used, both for an eye-watering £69.20. I very much doubt they have a used copy and instead, like many vendors on Amazon, will just order a copy from Lulu if someone buys one from them.

     

    In other words, it could very well be that you haven't received any royalties for the original sale of these books because the used copies don't actually exist. And so I know how you're going to take this question, but I'm going to ask it anyway: have you checked that you've actually sold any books? Have you had any sales reports?


  • Richard_Coady wrote:

    Sometimes vendors on Amazon who list a book as second hand are actually selling new ones. Why they do this I have no idea, but they do. They also often offer these books at ridiculous prices.

     

    At the moment someone called DailyDeal is currently offering my book as both new and used, both for an eye-watering £69.20. I very much doubt they have a used copy and instead, like many vendors on Amazon, will just order a copy from Lulu if someone buys one from them.

     

    In other words, it could very well be that you haven't received any royalties for the original sale of these books because the used copies don't actually exist. And so I know how you're going to take this question, but I'm going to ask it anyway: have you checked that you've actually sold any books? Have you had any sales reports?


    I think this sounds like a very plausible theory.  In fact, it would appear to be exactly what is happening.

     

    I looked up some of Kurt's books on AbeBooks and found that there are a number of dealers offering them. In the case of AbeBooks, however, the dealers are all explicit in explaining that the copies being sold are printed on demand at the time the order is received (at the same time all of the dealers say they have anywhere from 10 to 20 copies of Kurt's books on hand...which makes no real sense unless they are required by AbeBooks to include some number).

     

    In any event, even though these are ostensibly used book dealers listing books on a used book site, the books actually don't exist before they've been ordered. So even though there may appear to be a large number of Kurt's books available from used book dealers, suggesting that a great many of his books have been sold, these books in fact do not exist so it would be a mistake on Kurt's part to assume that these books have had some previous sale for which he is owed royalties.

     

    By the way, I see that there are copies of "The Art of Space" (a book still in print!) being offered for $321 and $2000! What in the world are these dealers thinking?

     

     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • So basically Lomas, what you and Ron are saying is,

     

    "Just because I wrote the non-fiction book, "Khufu's Counterweights!" as a follow up to Jean Pierre Houdin's 2011 computer animated documentary, "Khufu Reborn" after interviewing him personally on the subject, performing experiments of my own, (Which were conclusive to a better theory in my book.) and following up with him publicly with the results of his work in a book,  (That was a work of my own.) I should now be ostracized for it publicly through untruths and half truths about how you just think it wasn't original?" 

     

    And now your discounting real scientific results that are now published on youtube.com and explained in the book, "Khufu's Counterweights!" all of which you have no idea or basis for discussion or debate about because you have no knowledge of what your talking about. And now because I wrote about my findings in a book that I should be subject to ridicule? Even up to and including my other novels is outright bigotry on your part and that should now be socially acceptable? I don't think so! Did Jean-Pierre design the pyramids? Did he design the counterweight system? Did he build it? No. Of course he didn't. That being said,

     

    "Then how can the construction of the pyramids be one persons property?" 

     

    Even when talking about entirely different works of fiction? All because they were authored by me? I'm beginning to see the light now. I've suspected this from the beginning and you've now confirmed it for me in your own words. What a sad world we live in when something like this is allowed to go on unhindered, and in fact, perpetuated by so many. If anybody who is reading this can't see the blatant ethical misconduct in this case than your no better than they are in my opinion. 

     

    One thing that I can always count on from you guys is that you will follow main stream societies beliefs in any case regardless because you don't really have the ability to think for yourselves. Which, in any case, is sad, but true...


  • Bolter1224 wrote:

    So basically Lomas, what you and Ron are saying is,

     

    "Just because I wrote the non-fiction book, "Khufu's Counterweights!" as a follow up to Jean Pierre Houdin's 2011 computer animated documentary, "Khufu Reborn" after interviewing him personally on the subject, performing experiments of my own, (Which were conclusive to a better theory in my book.) and following up with him publicly with the results of his work in a book,  (That was a work of my own.) I should now be ostracized for it publicly through untruths and half truths about how you just think it wasn't original?" 

     

    Actually, in all of my comments on your book, I have never attacked its originality. I have been critical of the writing and quality of research and some of your conclusions, but I have never criticized your book beyond that. Everyone has the right to publish any sort of theory they want. I have an entire shelf of books here about the hollow earth, astrology, Atlantis and other pseudoscientific subjects. I would never in the world suggest that these books shouldn't have been written or published. 

     

    And now your discounting real scientific results that are now published on youtube.com and explained in the book, "Khufu's Counterweights!" all of which you have no idea or basis for discussion or debate about because you have no knowledge of what your talking about.

     

    You "published" these things yourself, which means they underwent nothing resembling a peer review, something "real scientific results" require. You cannot use something you posted to YouTube and a self-published book to add credibility to your theories.

     

    By the bye, you might find this information useful: Scientific Method.

     

    And now because I wrote about my findings in a book that I should be subject to ridicule? Even up to and including my other novels is outright bigotry on your part and that should now be socially acceptable?

     

    Your book about the pyramids and your novels are two entirely separate subjects. They are only related in that they share the same quality of writing.

     

    I don't think so! Did Jean-Pierre design the pyramids? Did he design the counterweight system? Did he build it? No. Of course he didn't. That being said,

     

    "Then how can the construction of the pyramids be one persons property?" 

     

    I presume you mean, "How can a theory about the construction of the pyramids be one person's property"? It can't, of course. One cannot copyright an idea, only the way in which the idea is expressed.

     

    Even when talking about entirely different works of fiction? All because they were authored by me? 

     

    No...not because they were authored by you specifically. The comments and criticisms would be the same regardless of who the author might be. No one is singling you out for special attention.

     

    I'm beginning to see the light now. I've suspected this from the beginning and you've now confirmed it for me in your own words. What a sad world we live in when something like this is allowed to go on unhindered, and in fact, perpetuated by so many. If anybody who is reading this can't see the blatant ethical misconduct in this case than your no better than they are in my opinion. 

     

    One thing that I can always count on from you guys is that you will follow main stream societies beliefs in any case regardless because you don't really have the ability to think for yourselves. Which, in any case, is sad, but true...


     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • I can appreciate Ron that you actually took the time out of your day to respond to all of this. The fact that you even used my real name suggests that I am a real person and not some not so well fashioned maverick juggernaut bent on world domination. Yet, it still appears to me that its not the story as far as your concerned, not the way it was told, but the use of the English language during the creation or writing of the book that is in way, somehow unappealing to you?

     

    Is that more like it? Or should we go back to the drawing board again on this one and say,

     

    "be a little more specific about it this time around?"

     

    Because I don't quite follow you. I just don't see your point. That's all. Maybe we should just agree to be friends and leave professional courtesy aside out of respect for one another and try to start off with a new slate, be cordial toward one another, and do it in a friendly way? Just drop it and stop butting heads about it. Does that sound fine with you?

     

    I really don't think Lomas has it in him to admit on any level or in any arena that he should compromise about anything. In any case. He will senselessly battle to the end with no consideration for what little meaning it has other than for arguments sake. Even when the point it mute. I don't begrudge him that nor do I wish to change it. I jsut say this with unintended harm toward anyone. Just as a statement of fact.


  • Bolter1224 wrote:

    I can appreciate Ron that you actually took the time out of your day to respond to all of this. The fact that you even used my real name suggests that I am a real person and not some not so well fashioned maverick juggernaut bent on world domination. Yet, it still appears to me that its not the story as far as your concerned, not the way it was told, but the use of the English language during the creation or writing of the book that is in way, somehow unappealing to you?

     

    Is that more like it? Or should we go back to the drawing board again on this one and say,

     

    "be a little more specific about it this time around?"

     

    Because I don't quite follow you. I just don't see your point. That's all. Maybe we should just agree to be friends and leave professional courtesy aside out of respect for one another and try to start off with a new slate, be cordial toward one another, and do it in a friendly way? Just drop it and stop butting heads about it. Does that sound fine with you?

     

    I really don't think Lomas has it in him to admit on any level or in any arena that he should compromise about anything. In any case. He will senselessly battle to the end with no consideration for what little meaning it has other than for arguments sake. Even when the point it mute. I don't begrudge him that nor do I wish to change it. I jsut say this with unintended harm toward anyone. Just as a statement of fact.


    I'm glad you take my comments in the spirit in which they were intended.

     

    I'm not too sure if I could be any more explicit about the books than I already have been, since I recall citing endless examples for you. All I can really suggest is that you go back and look closely at my original comments. The bottom line is that I think you should ask for a refund from your editor for whatever you paid her to edit "The Mighty Companion" (and any other books she may have worked on for you). 

     

    You really do seem to have a good story going, but there are so many oddities in punctuation, formatting, grammar and syntax that it interferes with reading. So much so that I have usually just given up after the first few pages---and I have tried several times. I would compare the effect to trying to read a book while riding in a car on a bumpy road. You say that it may not be "the story as far as your concerned, not the way it was told, but the use of the English language during the creation or writing of the book." Well, the use of the English language---including punctuation, etc.---is the way the story is told. It is the the medium you are using to convey your story...and the medium is full of static.

     

    As I said, from all that I can tell, you have a good story to tell. It therefore deserves the best treatment you can give it. I remember last year posting a long list of suggestions taken from just the first two or three pages. These were intended solely to help you make your book better...never as any kind of personal attack on you. (And, by the way, your writing style is consistent so any comments about one pretty much apply to them all.)  As I told you the other day, I write professionally (look me up on Amazon or Wikipedia) and even though I have been doing so for decades, I still get manuscripts back from editors with every page containing dozens of corrections and suggestions. It's annoying, of course, but I don't take it personally or as any kind of slur on my ability to write. The entire purpose is to make my books as good as they can possibly be, which should be the ultimate goal of any writer.

     

    Let me quote something you wrote three years ago: "I really do appreciate all the help I can get. I've totally gone about this whole prcocess without any assitance from anyone what so ever so I guess I maybe a little stand-offish or sensative by nature. I truely do want to produce the most desirealbe product imaginable but lack the basic skills needed to accompish such a feat."

     

    If all of that is true, then you will have to not only accept any praise you might receive but will also have to bite the bullet and take whatever criticism comes your way. It's part of the learning curve.

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    The was once a 'work of art' depicting a black cat in an unlit windowless room with its eyes closed. Needless to say it was just a black canvas. Often the 'art' is in the title, not the actual work.  Smiley Surprised And then again some artists are simply cheeky.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    One problem I detect is paranoia. Step away from thinking you are being victimized and you will do a great deal better. You should realise that you are getting the sort of advice that many people pay good money for. Do those people moan and ask for a refund? I doubt it.

     

    https://www.masterclass.com/classes/james-patterson-teaches-writing?utm_source=Paid&utm_medium=Bing&utm_term=Aq-Prospecting&utm_content=Search&utm_campaign=JP

     

    I would suggest it would be an insult to him if his clients moaned at him.

     

    BTW. I am called Kevin. I call you Bolter because that's the name you have chosen to be known by here.

  • I realize that this is an ancient discussion -- it was going on, hammer and tongs, long before my first post on this board -- but if I can add two cents:

     

    In the end, the final judge of the quality of our work is the person we see in the mirror. Discussions with the people here have caused me to raise my own expectations and thus my own standards. I see this as a maturation process (even though a person seeing me would assume that I'm already quite mature, yet apparently I still had room to grow).

     

    From my childhood, I have wanted to be a writer and to have books in print. I now have books in print and have received payment for English Prose, which by definition makes me a writer.

     

    This has caused me to want to be a better writer, and to write better books. The achievement of a goal is a stepping stone to the next goal.

     

    Kurt -- if I may call you Kurt -- You have achieved a goal. I'm sure that publishing your books was as important a goal to you as publishing my books was to me. No one here would want to diminish that goal, either in your mind or in ours (I believe that the others here would concur with this). It should be an important bolster to your self-esteem to see your books on your bookshelf -- books that you have proudly written. And rightly so. So far, so good.

     

    If that is the only goal you ever achieve in life, you've still marked an important milestone.

     

    But what if there are higher goals that you might achieve?

     

    Well, to do that means looking objectively at where you are now. You've written a non-fiction book and a fiction book. Well done. But are they, objectively speaking, the best that you can do?

     

    Or is it possible that you might be able to hone the craft of writing and achieve another, higher goal? Such as, perhaps, a non-fiction book based on original research, or a novel that addresses new ideas and presents more original plot points?

     

    It is a bit like a person who runs a hundred-meter dash in the Olympics, and who then says, "That was a worthy goal, and I'm proud to have done it -- But in four years, my goal will be the bronze medal, at least." Shifting the goal upwards does not diminish what we've already done, but it offers us another chance to know the joy of achieving what we would once have thought impossible.

     

    With every book I write, I find myself thinking, "This book is not perfect -- far from it! -- but it is by far the best I've ever written." And thus I keep trying to push my personal best.

     

    I hope that you find this helpful.

  • Eloquently put, Skoob_Ym!

     

    Let me add my own experience, just to underscore what you've said.

     

    I write professionally. I have had more than 40 books published by traditional, commercial publishers. This means that they have to run a gauntlet of editors, copy editors, fact checkers, etc. etc. And these people can be very, very tough because their ultimate loyalty is with the publisher they work for: it is their responsibility to make certain that my books are as perfect as humanly possible if for no other reason than that a very large amount of money is being invested and everything possible needs to be done to help insure that that investment pays off. It is good for me, too, because the better the books are that I produce means it is more likely I can sell a new project. And, of course, a good book is more likely to be purchased by readers, which is a good thing for both me and the publisher.

     

    On a personal level it is a simple matter of craftsmanship. I owe it to myself to create as good a book as I possibly can. To this end, I take the advice and criticism of my editors very, very seriously. It would be stupid of me not to. I don't always agree with them---and, in fact, I'm under no obligation to---but it would be counterproductive if I were to blithely ignore them, too. They are as interested in making my books the best they can possibly be as much as I am...and they have the advantage of objectivity. Many---if not most---of the changes or corrections I am asked to make stem from the fact that I am simply too close to a book to see it through the eyes of a new reader.

     

    The net result is that, step by step, every book I do is a little better than the previous one...and each new book won't be quite as good as the next one. The learning process never stops.

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • With all your ghost writers, editors, proof readers, book cover artists, photographers, blurb writers, producers, publishers, publicists, e-commerce marketers, loyal fans and avid readers that you know have producing a profit skoob, (And yes you may call me Kurt, thank you.) it seems you just become a label. Just like with any other product on a grocery shelf. Hot, medium, or mild.

     

    I've done everything from start to finish on these books. I did it as a hobby but it took on a life of its own which has now effected my life in a negative way.

     

    With a low income budget I've learned a lot from your criticism but truly I don't possess the resources that you boast. So where do writers like me who don't make any money, write for social status, and give their works away for free fit in? 

     

    If you want a totally original, hand crafted piece, read one of my novels. Or all five of them for that matter. Now my soul cannot rest until I feel like I've been totally understood and not looked upon as a troll or as a userper for it.


  • Bolter1224 wrote:

    With all your ghost writers, editors, proof readers, book cover artists, photographers, blurb writers, producers, publishers, publicists, e-commerce marketers, loyal fans and avid readers that you know have producing a profit skoob, (And yes you may call me Kurt, thank you.) it seems you just become a label. Just like with any other product on a grocery shelf. Hot, medium, or mild.

     

    Every book is a product, even your own.

     

    I've done everything from start to finish on these books. I did it as a hobby but it took on a life of its own which has now effected my life in a negative way.

     

    That's unfortunate. Some of it may be the fault of a few people in these forums who may have been a little too rough on you...but you also have to take some blame yourself for sometimes being a little to easily offended. If you want to be an author and you want to place your books in front of the public, you need to develop a thick skin when it comes to criticism. But sometimes that criticism is justified and you have to be able to realize that...and learn from it.

     

    With a low income budget I've learned a lot from your criticism but truly I don't possess the resources that you boast. So where do writers like me who don't make any money, write for social status, and give their works away for free fit in? 

     

    A. Don't give away your work.

    B. There are actually a lot of ways you can get help without spending any money. For instance, there are college English and Journalism majors who would be glad to give you a hand, or art students who would be happy to help with covers or interior layout. Those are just examples. Even something as simple as joining a writer's group of some kind---where you could engage in mutual critiques---would be a huge help. There are many of these online and I am sure some of the others in here could recommend good ones.

     

    If you want a totally original, hand crafted piece, read one of my novels. Or all five of them for that matter. Now my soul cannot rest until I feel like I've been totally understood and not looked upon as a troll or as a userper for it.

     

    I hope you are not suggesting that any of my books---or Skoob_Ym's or Kevin's---are not  original.Smiley Wink Perhaps you have the mistaken idea that getting editorial assistance somehow makes a book less original or "hand-crafted" (whatever you mean by that!), nothing could be further from the truth. You may be under the impression (shared by many other Luluers---so you would not be alone) that editors will rewrite a book. This isn't true. That's not an editor's job. The editor will go over a book with a fine-toothed comb, looking for any ways in which it could be improved in sense or structure and a copy editor does the same thing, looking at grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc.. It is entirely up to the author to implement these suggestions---the editors themselves won't change as much as comma. And the author is free to disagree with the editor (though a smart author thinks twice before ignoring them) or to make a change in some different way. The bottom line is that it is always the author's book.

     

    All of that being said, I understand perfectly where you are coming from, don't worry about that! But you should try to appreciate the fact that a book needs to be more than "original and hand crafted"---it has to be well crafted, too. I know you aren't trying to make any money from your books but you are still charging for them...readers still have to shell out some cash for the privilege of reading them. This obligates you to provide a product worth that expenditure. Which means not just telling a story but telling it well...and this includes everything from spelling and grammar to the actual formatting of the text.


     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
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