Use of images within a book - copyright issues

Hello all,

 

I have a general question on the use of images within a book, in particular copyright/public domain images.

 

I am producing a book on British rock 'n' roll in the 1960's in which I would like to include images of various artists. I have my own copies of concert programs from that period which include publicity shots of the artists. What's the opinion of fellow Lulus on using scanned copies of these images in my book - providing I include where the images came from?

 

As far as I can tell there are no copyright marks on either the programs or the photos so I am unable to contact the photographers/publishers directly.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks, Sympol

Comments


  • Sympol wrote:

    Hello all,

     

    I have a general question on the use of images within a book, in particular copyright/public domain images.

     

    I am producing a book on British rock 'n' roll in the 1960's in which I would like to include images of various artists. I have my own copies of concert programs from that period which include publicity shots of the artists. What's the opinion of fellow Lulus on using scanned copies of these images in my book - providing I include where the images came from?

     

    As far as I can tell there are no copyright marks on either the programs or the photos so I am unable to contact the photographers/publishers directly.

     

    Any thoughts?

     

    Thanks, Sympol


    I'm not an intellectural properties attorney, but this is what I have learned about the law in my own experience...

     

    I would not use the images without express permission from either the photographers or the publishers of the programs. There is no reason to suppose that the images are not within copyright simply because they once appeared without a copyright notice. For instance, the program publishers themselves may not have used the images with permission.

     

    What you could do is be able to show that you did your best to locate the copyright owners (Google image search may be of some help here) and if you were still unable to locate the present owner of an image invite them in a line added to the copyright or acknowledgements page  to contact you so you can correct the omission of credit in future editions of your book. 

     

     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    I have a general question on the use of images within a book, in particular copyright/public domain images.

     

    I am producing a book on British rock 'n' roll in the 1960's in which I would like to include images of various artists. I have my own copies of concert programs

     

    Programs are sort of one use short-life things that are often not expected to be kept (that's why the rare ones that are hung on to can become valuable) so often there is no copyright in them (and experts can spot a fake collectible.)

     

    from that period which include publicity shots of the artists.

     

    However, the photos in it may have copyright on them, but then again they could have simply been copied from a band's promotional stuff (as you say) that was printed in the 1000s or even millions, to hand out to fans and thrown away when that band is out of favour. So possibly there's no copyright on those either (and can also become collectible.)

     

    One problem with those old progs is that the promoters may no longer exist, so there could be no one to ask. Same with the bands, their agents, managers and even record companies.

     

    What's the opinion of fellow Lulus on using scanned copies of these images in my book - providing I include where the images came from?

     

    Do you know where they came from though? It would be very very unusual if concert promoters took the photos personally. They would be standard promotional stuff got from those agents, managers and even record companies.

     

    As far as I can tell there are no copyright marks on either the programs or the photos so I am unable to contact the photographers/publishers directly.

     

    Some bands are amazingly protective, though, or whoever bought any copyrights to do with defunct bands.

     

    It's difficult to know what to say really because you are using concert progs as a source of photos, rather than reproducing entire concert progs in your book. I would search the net. Some old bands still have sites, and still have fan sites. Ask there. I would have thought that photos of old bands could be obtained via other means than from concert progs, complete with permission.

  • potetjppotetjp Professor

    Ron Miller's advice is very wise. No doubt there is a copyright on each photograph, but, at the same time your book is a promotion that will help fans find records of their favourites.

  • Many thanks for the comments posted. It's probably safer to err on the side of caution and not include any photos of bands etc. from programs in my book.

     

    I can certainly find other images which I can purchase to use, but as I am on a limited budget, as a pensioner, I thought I would explore this less expensive method first. For my first book in the series I bought the rights for some photos from the V&A museum in London, but this ended up costing an arm and a leg (for me).

     

    There are web sites for some of the artists in which I am interested but in the main I have very little response from email enquiries to these, except to point me in the direction of 'other commercially available sources'.

     

    The search goes on....

  • potetjppotetjp Professor

    Sympol a écrit :

     

    There are web sites for some of the artists in which I am interested but in the main I have very little response from email enquiries to these, except to point me in the direction of 'other commercially available sources'.

     

    The search goes on....


    I gave up trying to obtain permission to reproduce their performance pictures from the Ritsumeikan University Noh Club for my book Yeats and Noh.Obviously they couldn't care less. Conversely, The-Noh.com accepted after a long procedure without requiring any fee. For Koxinga of Taiwan, European universities and libraries, no fees were asked and complete permission was granted, while the University of Arizona wanted $100 for a single pictire (3x4cm in the book). So I refused, and removed it. This was all the more shocking as the donator of the document had specified he wanted all researchers to have free access to the manuscript.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    There was a time when cameras were banned from gigs, and even bodyguards would 'insist' that no photos were taken at all anywhere without permission. Some artists even copyrighted their faces. The reason was obvious, they made extra dosh selling photos. Some welcomed it of course if it meant they would get in to the papers, and some even pretended to object when they were published. The taker of the photos owned copyright and sold the rights to publish, and often still do, if that's what they want to do.

    Nowadays such restrictions are impossible due to mobile phones, which can even bang an image right on to the net instantly. Very very very rarely are such images copyrighted (that's possibly why on some sites they vanish after a few seconds!)

    But, obviously, there were no smartphones around in the period you wish to cover, but I bet there are fan sites, even individual ones on places like Facebook with such old images on taken by whoever created the page. There's even places like this >>  http://flavorwire.com/331683/intimate-photos-of-rock-stars-from-1960s-and-70s-melody-maker

     

    But a lot of those bands are still around, or at least the members are, some have even reformed, such as http://www.thekinks.info/

     

    I suppose the question is, who exactly are you featuring in your book?

     

    One answer to your problem perhaps is to look at as many books as you can on the same subject and look at what it says about sources and copyrights for the contents, and follow them up. There's 1000s of such books. See >>

     

    http://www.richieunterberger.com/urbreading.html

  • potetjppotetjp Professor

    kevinlomas a écrit :

     

     

    One answer to your problem perhaps is to look at as many books as you can on the same subject and look at what it says about sources and copyrights for the contents, and follow them up. There's 1000s of such books. See >>

     

    http://www.richieunterberger.com/urbreading.html


    Indeed. That's a good idea.

  • Thanks Kevin - I'll check out the links you suggested. I have found several useful photos on Wikimedia Commons that I can use, but I'm still missing some pics of other groups I feature in the book - in particular less well-known bands such as Derry and The Seniors, The Mojos, The Flintstones and more. I did find a few good pics in a local newspaper up north but when I queried them the response was that according to their records the sources were listed as 'unknown' so they were unable to give me permissions. Other well known sites such as Alamy, Mirrorpix etc. are quoting up to £200 per photo for the rights to include in my book.

     

    It is frustrating but I'll keep searching....

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    Beware of small print on some 'free' image sites. They often say 'Not for commercial use,' and of course a published book is exactly that.

     

    Indeed, I cannot say I have heard of those bands. Just taking the Mojos as an example, I have just looked, and they were a one hit wonder, but I also found this >>   http://www.themojos.biz/

     

    Some look old enough to have been around in the 1960s! But it may not be them.

     

    I also found this >>    https://www.tumblr.com/search/derry%20and%20the%20seniors

     

    I was around in the 1960s and have heard of none of the bands you mention. Dare I suggest you do a book about bands people may have heard of?

  • Thanks Kevin!

     

    The tumblr link looks promising, but the Mojos link is to a cover band, unfortunately....

     

    The bands I mentioned were certainly not in the forefront of popular success in the mid 1960's, but my book, while obviously concentrating on the more well known bands such as the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Animals, Manfred Mann, Herman's Hermits - the list is pretty long - also has a chapter on these lesser known artists, as many were the contemporaries (and in the case of Derry and The Seniors, the forerunners) of the later more successful bands.

     

    Certainly a book which concentrated on bands of which no-one has heard would not be a likely candidate for success, but I want to try to give as complete a picture as possible of the heady days of the Beat Boom years!

     

    Regards, Sympol

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    Thanks Kevin!

     

    The tumblr link looks promising, but the Mojos link is to a cover band, unfortunately....

     

    Yes I did notice that. One would think that bands would research their names before they use them.

     

    The bands I mentioned were certainly not in the forefront of popular success in the mid 1960's, but my book, while obviously concentrating on the more well known bands such as the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Animals, Manfred Mann, Herman's Hermits - the list is pretty long

     

    Indeed it is, and I still have many of the records, and I could add even more to that list.

     

    - also has a chapter on these lesser known artists, as many were the contemporaries (and in the case of Derry and The Seniors, the forerunners) of the later more successful bands.

     

    I have just looked up the real Mojos and amongst the many members they had, I have heard of at least two. Aynsley Thomas Dunbar is still around and still playing, I think!. Perhaps you can approach band members who are still alive?

    Derry and The Seniors? Is Freddie Starr the infamous ' comedian '? I don't know if he is still alive, and don't care. Smiley Very Happy Their main perhaps claim to fame is they were the first Mersey Beat mob to record records and also play in Germany, and later Howie Casey joined Wings.

     

    But, perhaps one thing to do is look at individual band members, see if they still exist, and contact them?

     

    Certainly a book which concentrated on bands of which no-one has heard would not be a likely candidate for success, but I want to try to give as complete a picture as possible of the heady days of the Beat Boom years!

     

    I assume you know that local and national newspapers keep old copies and can be a good source of information, if not cheap photos! But you often have to go to their HQs and view microfitches.

     

    Anyway, this may be handy >>>   http://search.aol.com/aol/search?s_it=topsearchbox.search&v_t=client96-newtab&q=how+to+get+permission+to+use+photos%3F

  • Thanks again!

     

    I followed up the tumblr link but the account is listed as inactive and besides the pictures there I have seen elsewhere, so I know that they are copyright but not by the account holder...

     

    Yes, that is Freddie Starr the comedian...

     

    I assume you know that local and national newspapers keep old copies and can be a good source of information, if not cheap photos! But you often have to go to their HQs and view microfitches.

     

    I have found a few provincial newspaper photos, but so far they have been unable to point me to the copyright holders to photos in which I am interested. It's a bit difficult to view microfiche records in England as I'm living in Sweden.

    I have been able to contact a couple of sources here in Sweden who have supplied photos of the pirate radio station Radio Syd - which used the vessel MV Cheeta2, which was actually hired by Radio Caroline SOuth when their ship, MV Mi Amigo was out of commission for a few months after breaking moorings and running aground. The Rolling Stones made a 2 day trip to visit Radio Syd and there are some photos of that visit, too.

     

    The images I have found on Wikimedia Commons are subject to the Creative Commons licence, which states:

    You are free to:

    • Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
    • Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material
    • for any purpose, even commercially.
    • The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.

    Under the following terms:

    • Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.

       

    • ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original.

    • No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits.

    Notices:

    • You do not have to comply with the license for elements of the material in the public domain or where your use is permitted by an applicable exception or limitation.
    • No warranties are given. The license may not give you all of the permissions necessary for your intended use. For example, other rights such as publicity, privacy, or moral rights may limit how you use the material.
    So I have hopes that this covers my usage in a book.

     

    Thanks again for your valuable comments

     

    Regards, Sympol
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