Calculating the weight of the paper and book

Hi:

 

I am wondering why the "standard" weight calculations are not working for me.  I get (from various print industry sites) that 60# paper is 500 sheets of 25x38  stock that weigh 60 pounds. 

 

So, 25 x 38 x 500 = 475000 square inches of standard stock that weighs 60 pounds.

 

My book is 5.83 x 8.26 x 141 = 6790 square inches.

 

So, (6790 x 60) / 475000 = .85 pounds calculated weight for my book.  The Lulu page for the book is listed at 1.06 pounds.  I haven't weighed it yet.  So, where am I going astray?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comments

  • I've noticed that some orders come in with the books being about a fifth less thick than the books in other orders of the same book (actually the difference is about 5/32 of an inch out of the total three quarter inch thickness. It varies a little.)

     

    The last two orders (each order was for ten books) were what I would call thin, compared to the books in other shipments.

     

    Maybe there's a reason for the difference (like more pressure used during the process, etc).  Maybe I'm confused about how these calculations should work.  Any ideas?

     

     

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    Why do you need to know the weight? Are you sending one in to space?

     

    Papergrade is mostly given for paper to know how thick it is, not for actual weight information. It would be foolish to use 10gsm for a cover.

  • potetjppotetjp Professor

    How odd these measures are! In the rest of the world, "80g" means a square sheet of 1m ²  weighs 80 grammes. People use 60g for rough papers, 80g for ordinary mail, 100g for luxury mail, 120g or above for photographs.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    As far as I know it's gsm the world over. Grammes Per Square Metre. It just laziness to leave the SM off   Smiley Happy

  • DysonLogosDysonLogos Bibliophile
    Nope, the US typically uses pound weight (110 lb for heavy cardstock, 24 lb for nice paper, etc) for paper weight instead of gsm.
  • potetjppotetjp Professor

    kevinlomas a écrit :

    As far as I know it's gsm the world over. Grammes Per Square Metre. It just laziness to leave the SM off   Smiley Happy


    You are right, Kevin; 80gsm is read "eighty grams per square metre" in English, but it cannot be used in other languages. Besides, the universal symbol for "square metre" is m².

    I wrote 80g, to be read "eighty grams" in English.

  • potetjppotetjp Professor

     


    DysonLogos a écrit :
    Nope, the US typically uses pound weight (110 lb for heavy cardstock, 24 lb for nice paper, etc) for paper weight instead of gsm.

    I am sincerely surprised that the United States of America, that is so much advanced in many fields, not to say it is often the world leader, still sticks to the ancient measures that were abandoned in France by the end of the 18th century.  There must be a psychological study on the phenomenon, but I haven't found any so far. Perhaps, unwittingly America has become a conservatory of the Old World, while we Europeans are striving to get americanized.

  • In the distant past, some paper providers have used the obscurity of these calculations to their advantage. I forget the details.

     

    Anyway, it must be that a cover and its plasticote, along with a little glue, adds up to about .2 pounds? I guess that's really what my calculations are showing.  I wouldn't have thought a cover would weigh so much, which really adds to the fuel Kevin needs to get it to the moon.

     

    Wait - That's SHIPPING weight, which includes box probably.  Never mind.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    It's a measurement used the world over using metric, which is French invention is it not?

     

    http://www.viking-direct.co.uk/catalog/catalogSku.do?id=6743691&pr=Q71&cm_re=HOME-_-hero1-_-b2b_wk27_q71_Paper

     

    America is a strange place.  Smiley Happy

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    Why on earth does it matter? There's little you can do about unless you make your books yourself at home.

     

    But what book are you wishing to create that just the cover will weigh two pounds?

     

    Is this a wind up?

  • potetjppotetjp Professor

    Libraries have to record the dimensions and the weight of a book when it is entered in their collections.

    By the way, did you notice Lulu states the weight of a book and its dimensions in the author's profile, but only gives its dimensions in "my projects"? I suppose it is so because Lulu cannot possibly know the exact weight when the book is printed by a third party, say Amazon.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    potetjp wrote:

    Libraries have to record the dimensions and the weight of a book when it is entered in their collections.

    By the way, did you notice Lulu states the weight of a book and its dimensions in the author's profile, but only gives its dimensions in "my projects"? I suppose it is so because Lulu cannot possibly know the exact weight when the book is printed by a third party, say Amazon.


    Libraries ship a lot of books between them, and also stock them, so that information is handy for that. But they don't work it out as if they are manufacturing them, and really there's no need for anyone to do so because it's all pretty much standardised.

     

    Lulu for example. One cannot ask them to get a book printed on 20gsm paper because it weighs a bit less. It would male-hen-up the system, and the pages would possibly be almost transparent anyway!

  • Why on earth does it matter? There's little you can do about unless you make your books yourself at home.

     

    But what book are you wishing to create that just the cover will weigh two pounds?

     

    Is this a wind up?

     

    Not really any windup going on.  I like to see everything work out, so I know I'm getting what I'm asking for.  Now I'm certain that all the printers are giving me 60# paper.  I was a little suspicious because of the thickness difference in a couple orders. 

     

    Anyway - this is all probably moot.  Where is the paper book market going anyway?  Up or down?  Probably not up.  People are giving up reading long prose, and opting for sound-bite internet related "literature."  That's a sad thing, because long, involved stories exercise the mind.  Sound bites slowly kill off the critical thinking skills.  So sad.

  • potetjppotetjp Professor

    rleesbsd a écrit :

     Now I'm certain that all the printers are giving me 60# paper.  I was a little suspicious because of the thickness difference in a couple orders. 

     


     

    As indicated in my projects, for all my softbound books, the paper is cream, and its grade is "60#"; which I suppose means 60gsm. For my hardbound books, the paper is white and its grade "50#".

    Do you have different figures?

     

  • potetjppotetjp Professor

    kevinlomas a écrit :

    Libraries ship a lot of books between them, and also stock them, so that information is handy for that. But they don't work it out as if they are manufacturing them, and really there's no need for anyone to do so because it's all pretty much standardised.

     


     

    I don't kow about the UK, but I can assure you that in France there are library employees in charge of measuring and weighing all the old books, and we have many.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    potetjp wrote:

    kevinlomas a écrit :

    Libraries ship a lot of books between them, and also stock them, so that information is handy for that. But they don't work it out as if they are manufacturing them, and really there's no need for anyone to do so because it's all pretty much standardised.

     


     

    I don't kow about the UK, but I can assure you that in France there are library employees in charge of measuring and weighing all the old books, and we have many.


    Well I don't know that about the UK either, but I expect they have to give them things to do to make their jobs less boring. It could also be nonsense though. Example >>> http://libraries.ucsd.edu/about/us/geisel-library-urban-legends.html

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    It's not to do with thickness but weight, as you keep saying. Some paper is full of Cornish clay so is heavier than paper with none in.

     


     

    Anyway - this is all probably moot.  Where is the paper book market going anyway?  Up or down?  Probably not up.  People are giving up reading long prose, and opting for sound-bite internet related "literature."  That's a sad thing, because long, involved stories exercise the mind.  Sound bites slowly kill off the critical thinking skills.  So sad.


    Soundbites? Do you know what one is? An ePub or music track download is not a soundbite.

     

    You don't need to worry about the paper industry because it's not only used for books.

     

    http://www.paper.org.uk/information/factsheets/paper_and_its_uses.pdf

     

     

  • As indicated in my projects, for all my softbound books, the paper is cream, and its grade is "60#"; which I suppose means 60gsm. For my hardbound books, the paper is white and its grade "50#".

    Do you have different figures?

    I'm pretty sure that for US customers, Lulu is quoting the paper weight as 60# = 60 pound (using weird US measure) which wouldn't be grams. In Europe, Lulu may present a different measure. No, I've not determined that there is any problem with the weights. I've basically verified that the weight is 60# paper. Some of the books are thinner though, so I think some presses use more pressure during binding. I wish they wouldn't do that, because I think it makes the opposite page (other side of the leaf) bleed through more noticably.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    At times I buy HP inkjet paper and it says 80gsm on it.

  • potetjppotetjp Professor

    rleesbsd a écrit :
    I'm pretty sure that for US customers, Lulu is quoting the paper weight as 60# = 60 pound (using weird US measure) which wouldn't be grams. In Europe, Lulu may present a different measure. No, I've not determined that there is any problem with the weights. I've basically verified that the weight is 60# paper. Some of the books are thinner though, so I think some presses use more pressure during binding. I wish they wouldn't do that, because I think it makes the opposite page (other side of the leaf) bleed through more noticably.

    Yes, this is an interesting problem, provided the number of pages is the same.

    "60# = 60 pounds" sounds very heavy to me. To what ratio?  

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    There's 100s if not 1000s of types of paper so that link is not of much use. What is of use is what it says on Lulu about what paper their POD printers use, and it says here >>   http://www.lulu.com/create/books

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