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Occasional Creator
RyanDawson
Posts: 6
Registered: 05-31-2011

Confused About Chapter Formatting

[ Edited ]

After perusing this forum, I'm beginning to see that I know very little about formatting and to feel almost intimidated enough by this process to forget about Lulu altogether and begin the arduous process of attempting to get published through conventional channels.  I had no idea that chapters frequently started on odd-numbered pages, and I fail to see how that matters at all to anyone.  It certainly doesn't matter to me when I read!  And yet it appears that at least one person believes it "adds to the sense of time, location, subject change." 
I find this baffling.  Have I misunderstood?  I have never, ever considered this in all my years as a reader.  What could the page numbers possibly have to do with the story?  If, for instance, chapter 6 starts on page 20, are the readers somehow likely to become confused about where they are in the narrative?  It's counterintuitive - at least to me.
I'm looking at my own book now.  I'm wondering whether or not I need to edit it in Word and add spaces so that my chapters all start on their own page.  This would be easy.  Should I do it?  Is it also important that my chapters start on odd-numbered pages?  Also, I have no title page.  I have no blank pages at the beginning.  Are these things I need to add as well?  I imagine now that they are.
I'm finding this information difficult to locate on this site.  Perhaps it's because I've never published anything.  Basically, I feel like a real fish out of water here.  I'm sorry if answers to my questions are easy to find elsewhere on this site!  I hope you'll consider that I'm a complete novice when and if you decide to reply to this message.
Thank you.

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Honored Creator
Belinda D'Alessandro
Posts: 1,219
Registered: 02-11-2010

Re: Confused About Chapter Formatting

The best thing to do is have a look at a number of commercially published books on your bookshelf (or in a library) similar to the one you're publishing. What do they look like?

Do they have chapters (i.e. where you got the heading "Chapter X") starting on a new page? They all do.

Do they have chapters (i.e. where you got the heading "Chapter X") starting on a new page? Not all books do, some just on the next page, an even page, after the last page of the previous chapter finishes.

What else do books have? They have at least a title page and an imprint page (also known as a copyright page). Some have a half title, "other books by" page, so on and so forth.

Title and copyright/imprint pages are an ABSOLUTE MUST if you want distribution (i.e. you want your book on Amazon, etc). 

If you number your pages, the page numbers on the main text pages must also be in the correct sequence (i.e. 2 follows 1 etc and if you leave page number 2 off, then the next page number must be 3) if you want distribution. (Page numbers can be left off the Title and copyright/imprint pages).

Why title and copyright pages and page numbers? Because the printer which prints the books for distribution says you must have them. Why do they say that? Well, because people expect books to look like other books on their bookshelf!

If you're publising fiction and you take a look at a number of commercially published fiction books on your bookshelf, you'll find they all look very similar with the order of pages, numbering, chapters etc with only minor differences in terms of font, font size and leading (line spacing).

If you use the basic book format as your starting point and use similar formatting, you can't go too far wrong.

Hope this helps.

Belinda

Kind Regards
Belinda D'Alessandro
Author, Managing Editor BDA Books
Website: http://www.bdabooks.com.au
My Lulu Store: http://stores.lulu.com/bdabooks
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Occasional Creator
RyanDawson
Posts: 6
Registered: 05-31-2011

Re: Confused About Chapter Formatting

Thanks, Belinda!

I feel like there's a lot about the business of publishing that I don't understand the way others here do.  My book has page numbers, yes, and I will go through it today to add spaces to the ends of chapters so that each chapter starts on its own page.  I'll type up a title page as well, but I'm not sure how to generate a copyright page.  The copyright pages I've seen seem to have information on them that needs to be added by the publisher - like the ISBN number, the warning about buying "stripped" books, and manufacturing information.  I'm not sure how much Lulu will add or if absolutely everything is my repsonsibility.  I will gladly do whatever is necessary to get my book published, and I admit that there's a lot that I don't know.  How should I generate a copyright page?  Some books have blanks pages at the beginning.  Should mine?  How many should I have? 

Thanks again for your help.  I really appreciate it!  I hope you'll forgive my ignorance.

-Ryan

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Honored Creator
Belinda D'Alessandro
Posts: 1,219
Registered: 02-11-2010

Re: Confused About Chapter Formatting

Hi Ryan

Lulu will add nothing to your book (unless you buy one of their formatting packages, which the vast majority of people can do without), so yes you need to add he title and copyright pages.
You are the publisher (even if you get a free Lulu ISBN) because you are the one taking the decisions and responsibility for your book.

In terms of the copyright page, you will need to add at minimum the ISBN and basic copyright information (i.e. Copyright © your name, year) and I like to add the bits about “this is a work of fiction, etc”, “the author asserts his moral rights to be attributed as author” and a mailing address (I have a post office box for that purpose) and website/blog for my publishing imprint.

But you can leave out the “stripped books” information (because this is print on demand – books printed as they are ordered – rather than offset print runs – print runs where they print thousands where some might be returned or covers stripped and the interiors pulped) and the manufacturing information (because the book could be printed at any one of a number of print plants).

In terms of blank pages, so long as your page count is divisible by 2, you don’t have to add any blank pages if you can get away with it – as you pay for blank pages to be “printed”, even though there’s nothing on them.

I have a basic template which has pages in the following order: half title (with the book title only), blank page (to get the full title page on a right hand side page – for subsequent books, this can be an “other books by” page), title page (title and author), copyright page, then the next right hand side page is the first page of the main text.

As for the other steps in the publishing business, I agree there’s a lot to learn! (Much harder than writing the d*mn book!)

There are a few basic steps commercial publishers take well before the put a book “out there”, the most important of which is having a work edited by an objective disinterested third party (there are varying degrees of editing, but a more advanced edit will pick up gaping plot holes, incorrectly used homonyms, errors in characters – e.g. main character has blue eyes and blonde hair in Ch 1 but black hair and green eyes in Ch 15).

Cheers
Belinda
Kind Regards
Belinda D'Alessandro
Author, Managing Editor BDA Books
Website: http://www.bdabooks.com.au
My Lulu Store: http://stores.lulu.com/bdabooks
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Occasional Creator
RyanDawson
Posts: 6
Registered: 05-31-2011

Re: Confused About Chapter Formatting

Thank you so much for taking time out to help me.  I'm embarrassed by my inexperience!  This site doesn't seem very intuitive in the ways it helps you.  I don't really want to purchasing a formatting package; I don't think I have the capital to do so!  I will attempt to do the formatting myself.

Looking, by reason of its being near-at-hand, at my copy of Watership Down, I actually see three title pages!  this is the Perennial Classics edition which includes and introduction by Richard Adams.  The first page would be, I believe, the half title page you mentioned.  Following that is a full title page.  Then there's the disclaimer, acknowledgements, and the dedication.  Following that is table of contents, with its pages numbered xi to xiii; here it explains that the introduction is on page xv and the map encompasses pages xx-xxxi.  After the introduction is another half title page, the next two pages are the map, and after that the story begins.  The first numbered page is 4, though I count 23 pages (back and front) from the first half- title to that 4th page.  My point, already belabored, is that this is a bit confusing.  Assuming I have half title, full title, copyright/imprint, dedication, disclaimer, another half title, and then a page for "Part One," it looks as though the first chapter of my book would start on page 7.  Is that about right?  I could leave out the disclaimer and start it on page 6 if it would be better to start on an even number.  Also, the last few pages of my book are a glossary and a pronunciation guide.  Should those be numbered with Roman numerals? 

As for editing, I've done all of that myself, though I wish I had the money to pay an editor.  In lieu of that, I've sent my book to 7 people, including my father, and only one actually read any of it.  Do you know of a good place to find an editor interested in working with high fantasy that won't gouge me for money?

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Occasional Creator
RyanDawson
Posts: 6
Registered: 05-31-2011

Re: Confused About Chapter Formatting

A further question:
If I want to have, say, a title page with nothing on the back, how would I format that in Word? Type a title page, insert a blank page, and then type, say, a dedication? Have I phrased that question well?
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Honored Creator
kevinlomas
Posts: 8,485
Registered: 02-11-2010

Re: Confused About Chapter Formatting

Thank you so much for taking time out to help me.  I'm embarrassed by my inexperience!  This site doesn't seem very intuitive in the ways it helps you.  I don't really want to purchasing a formatting package; I don't think I have the capital to do so!  I will attempt to do the formatting myself.

Well we all have to learn and the site does not help much! But there are many Help links within the Project Wizards, and there is no reason you cannot do a set to Private test run, even with blank pages for now! You can delete Projects.

Looking, by reason of its being near-at-hand, at my copy of Watership Down, I actually see three title pages!  this is the Perennial Classics edition which includes and introduction by Richard Adams.  The first page would be, I believe, the half title page you mentioned.  Following that is a full title page.  Then there's the disclaimer, acknowledgements, and the dedication.  Following that is table of contents, with its pages numbered xi to xiii; here it explains that the introduction is on page xv and the map encompasses pages xx-xxxi.  After the introduction is another half title page, the next two pages are the map, and after that the story begins.

Ah yes, some do get carried away! But that's a matter of choice and even if you have something to put on those extra pages or not!

  The first numbered page is 4, though I count 23 pages (back and front) from the first half- title to that 4th page.

At what point you start the numbering is up to you. Some count all the blanks and pages prior to the story bodytext and some do not. But normally the numbering is actually only shown from the main bodytext. Where the 'story' starts. Same with headers and footers.

  My point, already belabored, is that this is a bit confusing.  Assuming I have half title, full title, copyright/imprint, dedication, disclaimer, another half title, and then a page for "Part One," it looks as though the first chapter of my book would start on page 7.  Is that about right?  I could leave out the disclaimer and start it on page 6 if it would be better to start on an even number.  Also, the last few pages of my book are a glossary and a pronunciation guide.  Should those be numbered with Roman numerals?

OK, 'normal' >>

Title Page, including your name. This can include a Part (X) if it is actually a series.

Copyright Page (no Imprint, because it isnt really!) complete with a Copyright,  Disclaimer, ISBN if you have one, Publisher (you!) all on one page.

Dedication? Ermm, do you have one? I don't!

Usually the start of the story Bodytext starts on a right-hand page, possibly actually as 1. With odd numbers on the following Right pages. How you number glossaries is up to you, but has to be consistant.

You will need a blank page or 2 after those.

As for editing, I've done all of that myself, though I wish I had the money to pay an editor.  In lieu of that, I've sent my book to 7 people, including my father, and only one actually read any of it.  Do you know of a good place to find an editor interested in working with high fantasy that won't gouge me for money?

Not really, no, but you could paste a sample chapter or two in here to give us some clues about how you are handling it. And then there will be your Preview once you have created your book and taken it off Private.

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Honored Creator
kevinlomas
Posts: 8,485
Registered: 02-11-2010

Re: Confused About Chapter Formatting

"A further question:
If I want to have, say, a title page with nothing on the back, how would I format that in Word? Type a title page, insert a blank page, and then type, say, a dedication? Have I phrased that question well? ."

Depends how you insert a blank page. You need to use Page Break after the last line of text. You will also need to use a few New Sections. Isn't it all fun? :-)
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Honored Creator
Belinda D'Alessandro
Posts: 1,219
Registered: 02-11-2010

Re: Confused About Chapter Formatting

No worries.

Formatting can be hard to master, but it can be learnt.  Yes, starting on page 7 sounds about right. As for the change in numbering styles, that’s up to you.

In terms of editing, family and friends are not always (read that as never) the best people to ask: they tell you what you want to hear or say nothing at all to avoid offending you.

I don’t do editing work in the fantasy genre (and my schedule doesn’t permit at the moment – I’m expecting long hours at my other job over the next month) but there are some good people in these forums I’d trust with editing (but I’m not sure if they all take on the fantasy genre): Faith Carroll is one who immediately come to mind who I think works in that genre (and who’s been around the forums recently).

I do understand the desire to release within short timeframe after thinking you’re ready to release. But you, your work and your readers will be better served if you push your publication date back. Get your work edited by a disinterested third party before you release it. (The large commercial publishers normally have a 6 to 9 month lead time from receipt of the finished manuscript to release, to allow time for editing (and going back and forth with the author), book design and pre-release marketing. An author friend of mine has just delivered the final version of her 3rd manuscript to her commercial publisher and it won’t be released till next year!) This will also give you time to "play with"your (learn) formatting.



Kind Regards
Belinda D'Alessandro
Author, Managing Editor BDA Books
Website: http://www.bdabooks.com.au
My Lulu Store: http://stores.lulu.com/bdabooks
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Occasional Creator
RyanDawson
Posts: 6
Registered: 05-31-2011

Re: Confused About Chapter Formatting

I insert a blank page, in Word '07, by clicking Insert and then clicking Blank Page.  All it does is...well...create a blank page!  I don't know how to use a Page Break, and I don't know what you mean by "New Sections."  It's fun, yes! A lot of work, but I know it will be worth it.  I could post a sample chapter here, I suppose, but I don't want to upset anyone with a huge post!  Regarding the preview of my story, I don't know how to set that.  Is my story on private right now?  I watched a video about how to publish on Lulu, and it was aggressively unhelpful.  It seems to have been made before there was some kind of reformatting of the site itself, and, if I recall correctly it didn't say anything about "private" or previews.  I feel like I'm getting a lot of good advice from you helpful people, but I'm feeling more and more daunted as I go along.  I am an infant just learning to stand on his own, and I am struggling to fit in among brisk walkers.

Here's what I have so far regarding the title pages and whatnot:

1) Half title

2) Blank page

3) Full Title

4) Copyright page

5) Dedication (to my wife)

6) Part One

This is in Word, so a blank page is just that.  But Word doesn't show you how your document will look as a book.  Will a blank page in Word translate to a completely blank page in a book?  How can I assure that there is nothing on the back of the Half-title page (that is to say nothing on the left page when the full title is on the right page)?  Is that where Page Breaks and New Sections come in?

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