LaTeX PDFs and LuLu

[alistermitchell]

Hello folks.

I have two books (military history) which I'm updating and intend to print as US Trade Casebound, as this seems to be about the only convenient size available printed in the UK or Europe.

I do my writing in pdfLaTeX using the memoir document class.which allows me to set up things like stock size, typeblock sixe and margins. Has anyone any advice?

My main problem is that, as you might expect, the LuLu site is aimed more at automatic typesetting and I can;t find detailed information for those who already have typeset PDFs and "simply" want to get printed copies.  Perhaps I'm missing something?

Cheers,

Alister

[kevinlomas]

I have no idea what pdflatex is, or stock size, but all word proccessors allow you to set up margins etc etc. But type block? Do you mean as in "movable type" or do you mean font size in the modern sense?

I have no idea what you mean about automatic typsetting either. Well I do, but nowhere uses such now. Well, very few anyway.

I think what you are missing is 20 years of printing development.

It is more or less all digital now. Perhaps these will help >>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXG4YsZWmP8

http://connect.lulu.com/t5/Video-Tutorials/Video-on-How-to-Publish-a-Book/ta-p/31793

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCVPlZxva1I&feature=related

[alistermitchell]

I'm sorry you think I'm 20 years out of date but I can assure you that, probably because I didn't explain properly, you have misunderstood the situation.

You must realise that a great deal of publishing terminology goes back a long way and I believe I was using standard terms.  For example,the paper stock size is the physical size of the sheet on which the printing is done and is then trimmed (see the differences in the LuLu templates for US Trade paper back and case).  The type block is the area within which the printing appears on the page, and obviously comes from the composed and clamped block of print used on flat bed printing machines.

I can assure you that I have never had any sort of metal or litho, etc. printing equipment - everything is entirely electronic.  As to typesetting, you may be thinking of mechanical typesetters (looking like big typewriters) or even LinoType machines.  Sorry, but I use an ordinary PC and printer with the typesetting program LaTeX which is one of a number of extensions of Donald Knuth's TeX typesetting markup language.  pdf LaTeX is a version of the above which directly produces printable PDFs.  All of these have been around in academic and other circles for decades.

So here is my fundamental question again, in case someone in the community has had dealings with LaTeX, etc...

I want to lay out my books (which contain numerous illustrations, diagrams, tables and the like) the way I want them and then have LuLu print the result.  As I said before, LuLu, for obvious reasons, is aimed at people who simply want to publish and are happy to allow LuLu's typesetting engine to make its own decisions (although in fact this is defined in the PDF files and interpreted by LuLu).

So does anyone understand me now?

Alister

[kevinlomas]

I'm sorry you think I'm 20 years out of date but I can assure you that, probably because I didn't explain properly, you have misunderstood the situation.

Perhaps ...

You must realise that a great deal of publishing terminology goes back a long way

So do I

 and I believe I was using standard terms.

Which are no longer standard, and "stock" surely applies to standard sized newsprint, whereas books come in page sizes? 

  For example,the paper stock size is the physical size of the sheet on which the printing is done and is then trimmed (see the differences in the LuLu templates for US Trade paper back and case).

Not really, because it depends on the size of the paper the book printing machines can handle and how many pages can be printed on that one sheet, not to mention at what size, then they are trimmed to the book page size. They do get trimmed a little more during binding though.

  The type block is the area within which the printing appears on the page, and obviously comes from the composed and clamped block of print used on flat bed printing machines.

Indeed, it is called page size, and that is the size you create your file of pages at. Who still uses flatbeds? Who still puts together type? However, POD/BOD uses lasers, as seen in those links I provided.

I can assure you that I have never had any sort of metal or litho, etc. printing equipment - everything is entirely electronic.

Oh, why use such old terms then?

  As to typesetting, you may be thinking of mechanical typesetters (looking like big typewriters) or even LinoType machines.

Well no, I was not but I did think you was, in fact reading further down I still think you are!

  Sorry, but I use an ordinary PC and printer with the typesetting program LaTeX which is one of a number of extensions of Donald Knuth's TeX typesetting markup language.  pdf LaTeX is a version of the above which directly produces printable PDFs.  All of these have been around in academic and other circles for decades.

So why on earth are you using it then? Try Word or even Adobe. As you say, everything is electronic, and so is the printing.

So here is my fundamental question again, in case someone in the community has had dealings with LaTeX, etc...

Did you look at the links I provided?

I want to lay out my books (which contain numerous illustrations, diagrams, tables and the like) the way I want them and then have LuLu print the result.  As I said before, LuLu, for obvious reasons, is aimed at people who simply want to publish and are happy to allow LuLu's typesetting engine to make its own decisions (although in fact this is defined in the PDF files and interpreted by LuLu).

It seems you did not ...

So does anyone understand me now?

What you say all seems a bit Steampunk to me. The point is, do you inderstand how Lulu works and what you have to create to allow it to?

[Ken Anderson]

Alister, yes I did and do. See my PM.

[kevinlomas]

Ken still cuts letters from wooden blocks :-)

[alistermitchell]

It's good of you to take the time to reply although I feel that we are never going to come to an agreement.

Your comments on the stock size are, IMHO, wrong.  "Stock size" is a standard term and, as you say, in quantity printing refers to the sheet upon which a signature will be laid out for fold and trim. However, we are talking about a "DTP" type operation where each leaf receives either a single double sided page for perfect binding or a pair for sewn case.  The LuLu templates indicate the positioning of the "page" to use your terminology, on the stock, and that is settable in typesetting software.  Unfortunately, LuLu doesn't give enough information to do this.

Since you seem to object to my using the historic printing terms, I will refrain - and I'm a little annoyed that you keep telling me I'm out of date.  Not so - I'm using the very latest versions of the software.  Also, I have never used anything other than LaTeX for typesetting.  And here I'm going to upset many - I don't believe that Word can produce a professional layout suitable for publishing from my material.  Bear in mind that I'm not talking about simple text or text with a few illustrations - my books contain large numbers of floating and fixed inserts, carefully set up to align with the text to which they refer.

Finally, I did review the links you sent and found them less than useful,  The LuLu one describes the process in the usual "ain't it simple" style which ignores any complexity, the one with the perfect binding machine had less information in it that the "How It's Made" piece on TV (and had no commentary) and the other was really an advert for someone else's perfect binding machinery.

Anyway, I'm sorry that nobody else in the community has joined in and I suspect I will be looking elsewhere for my self publishing..

Alister

[kevinlomas]

The Lulu templates do not show that at all. Are you mistaking margins for crop lines?
But this is not typesetting, no typesetting is used here. Word can indeed produce the files that you need in order to create book at Lulu.
The Lulu video show exactly how a book is created here. The others show how a book is made using just one machine. It is indeed simple.
I think you are making it all sound complex with preconcieved ideas. Take Ken's offer. He can create PDFs lulu-ready using Adobe's own tools.

[WilliamAdams]

There are a number of books on Lulu which are typeset using TeX variants including pdftex, pdflatex and xelatex. For long document creation, it's a good choice and can be far more reliable than Adobe InDesign or other interactive graphical tools (and it's certainly far easier to report bugs and get them fixed --- there are still limitations in InDesign's indexing which I reported during the CS3 beta test which have yet to be fixed).

Mostly it just works. You have to ensure fonts are embedded (which is the default), but there are glitches depending on which sub-contractor is assigned a project and what RIP they have.

If you'd post your document pre-amble here I'd be glad to look it over.

[kevinlomas]

How do you know how people on Lulu create their books? Once finished, a book looks like a book.
Ken will have it in hand by now no doubt, anyway.