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Author
gobbo
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎02-21-2011

Ken's Comments

Thanks for your comments, Ken.
I don't think I am thin skinned, quite the opposite. I have always met force with equal or greater force in my life, and not being a young man there have been many instances of that in my life, but I have always subscribed to civility in the first instance.

Maybe my first post came over wrong, or maybe I came across as peremptory,  I don't know. I shall try to be more cordial in future, as is usually my nature.

I agree with your comments on electronic messaging, that it is impersonal, and that one cannot judge a persons demeanor or character simply by what they write.

As for the attempt at  humour, I shall keep that in mind the next time I have something to say.

Regards

Levy

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Proofreader
sophierj
Posts: 113
Registered: ‎11-24-2011

Re: your posts

Hi Levy, 

I have been on here a month or so... I have learnt to ignore the snipes in the main... it is a shame that people feel the need to not be nice, particularly to people who are new to the site or have not been here for ages... I am sure it puts a lot of people off, because it is not made clear that everyone on here is a self-publisher not a representative of Lulu... Think I am classed as an 'editor' but I don't edit anything on Lulu. I just self-publish, and 'editor' is just the rank I have been awarded for putting X amount of posts on the forum (I think, unless there is another criteria they use, who knows!)... we are all equal on here, and I'm afraid that some may feel more equal than others. In the main everyone gives great advice, but from time to time it is like a cattery...! good job on getting your books done by the way, and I concur with most of what you had to say re publishers.

Sophie 

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Editor
Peter May
Posts: 2,690
Registered: ‎02-11-2010

Re: Return to the forum.

 

Covers of Primorial and Eddie very professional -- though a designer credit isn't usual on a front cover.

Drax - looks like it would go in the religious book section and I don't understand what the text on the bottom of the cover means. If its supposed to be a comedy perhaps the preview should show something comedic. Savation Army and Watchtower should be capitalised, and isn't it Jehovah's Witnesses with a 's?

Eddie - there's an awful lot of pages of background in the preview of the start of the book, didn't want me to read further. Couldn't you start with something happening and use the history of these people throught the book as explanation for their actions, i.e. dive straight into the story?

Records flying off record shop shelves -- downloads?

 

Peter May's- Storefront
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Author
gobbo
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎02-21-2011

Re: your posts

Hi Sophie

Thanks for your kind words. You've restored my faith in human nature. It's never easy being the new kid on the block, although at my age, 'Kid' seems such a long time ago:smileyhappy:

Sometimes we just have to concede to those who put themselves above us, hard though that may be. It doesn't mean they've won, it just means you've been Magnanimous.

Levy

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Author
gobbo
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎02-21-2011

Re: Return to the forum.

Hi Peter

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.


Drax, is a comedy loosely based around Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy, the story of a journey through Hell. Only this time it is undertaken by three souls brought together for a common goal. The back cover more or less tells the story.
I shall re-write the description as I agree, it is not very informative.
S in salvation, and W in Watchtower. Sometimes we can't see the wood for the trees, no matter how hard we look.
I have seen Jehovah's Witnesses spelt without the 's as the word 'Witnesses' pluralises. Even the spell checker picks it up when you add 's.  I'll look that one up.

You agree with my wife on Eddie, so two against one. Secretly I thought that myself, I just wouldn't admit it:smileyhappy:

Showing my age on the 'Record' thing.

Now I know why I joined this forum.

Regards

Levy

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Editor
Ron Miller
Posts: 2,345
Registered: ‎02-11-2010

Re: Ron Millers comments.

[ Edited ]

gobbo wrote:

Well, you're a friendly bunch and no mistake.

As for your last comment, don't just snipe, if you have a criticism at least have the decency to elaborate it.

Your comment 'that hoary old canard.' Why? if literary agents and publishing houses are not hedging their bets, are there over 700,000+ books and over 200,000+ new textbooks on Lulu.com, and 800000+ on Amazon Kindle alone, and that's just two self publishing sites. Millions of books are self published every year to the growing electronic and print on demand sites because writers, good or bad, cannot gain representation, even the publishing houses are beginning to use this media.

Are you saying that all the writers who do self publish are not good enough to sell their wares by conventional means, I don't accept that.

***

Ask any writer on any self publishing site why they self published and the response will probably be: 'It was the only way to get published.' I don't profess to be a great/good or even capable writer, I don't ever expect to become rich by writing, I just enjoy what I do, and if I've ruffled some feathers on here, it was not intentional.

Levy


My sincere apologies regarding the comment about your book's blurb: I was looking at the wrong book.

Regarding publishers, however: all one has to do is look at the current catalogs of major publishers and you will see that new authors are well-represented, sometimes forming a sizeable percentage of the new titles listed. Editors at the commercial publishing houses will also confirm the fact that there is no prejudice against first-time authors. The only prejudice is against low quality.*

Many if not most self-published authors will in fact give the reason you quote for self-publishing; in short: they can't get published any other way. But I suspect that it is also true that there was very good reason no one wanted to invest in publishing their books.

The really sad thing about most self-published authors is their feeling that the need for editors, copy editors, proofreaders, designers, etc. is unnecessary. At least when a publishing house issues a book electronically it has gone through a proper editorial process. This is probably why readers will still prefer books from established houses: they know that there has been some selectivity and quality control. Professional authors will also still prefer working through a publisher for much the same reason (every professional writer understands and appreciates the need for a good editor)...to say nothing of the fact that they get advances and that all of the burdens of advertising and promotion are not only on someone else's shoulders but on capable, professional shoulders.

(I might, by the way, remind you that millions of books being offered through self-publishing sites (and Kindle is not exclusively such a site: commercially published titles form a good percentage of the number you quote) does not mean that millions of these books are being purchased. For instance, I probably have a hundred titles listed in Lulu, but some of those books haven't sold a single copy since they were first listed.)

 

---------------------------------

*Some time ago, when this subject came up---as it does every few months---I did those very things: I checked the catalogs of a dozen major publishers and I discussed acquisitions with nearly as many professional editors...editors at such prominent houses as Berkley, Lerner, Workman, Tor, etc. Just in case you might have thought I was just speaking speculatively.

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Editor
Ron Miller
Posts: 2,345
Registered: ‎02-11-2010

Re: Return to the forum.

[ Edited ]

Peter May wrote:

 

Covers of Primorial and Eddie very professional -- though a designer credit isn't usual on a front cover.

Drax - looks like it would go in the religious book section and I don't understand what the text on the bottom of the cover means. If its supposed to be a comedy perhaps the preview should show something comedic. Savation Army and Watchtower should be capitalised, and isn't it Jehovah's Witnesses with a 's?


I agree about the cover: one should not have to read a book in order to understand what the cover is about. It should, if anything, be the other way around. The sole purpose of a book cover is to give a potential reader some idea of the nature of the book: what kind of book it is or what it is about. It should encourage a reader to at least pick the book up and glance inside. Peter is right in that at first glance Drax appears to be a religious book.

One way to look at a prospective cover is to imagine the title and other text being in a different language. Does the cover still work? Does it still convey a sense of what the book is like or what it is about? I'm not so sure that Drax would pass this test.

The interior of Drax looks very nice. I might suggest, however, removing running heads from all but the main text pages (and blank pages as well). This will make your book look a little more professional.

------------------------------------------------------
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Black Cat Studios

All about me at
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Author
gobbo
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎02-21-2011

Re: Return to the forum.

Ron

Apologies accepted and point taken with regards publishers practices. Reading your text I don't believe you are speaking speculatively as I haven't researched it in depth, so I can only speak from personal experience and what other writers have told me.

As for Drax, one word titles have become popular in recent times, and I agree that the title should convey what the nature of the book is, given that the meaning of the double cross is probably lost on the majority of people.

The cross of Lorraine, the double cross, is an age old symbol. The dichotomy of opposites. I.e.. Man/Woman. Heaven/Hell. Life/Death. Good/Evil. God/Satan. Above/Below. etc. etc.

That two triangles placed one up, one down form a perfect six pointed star which is prominent in a number of religions, the most widely known being the Star of David, and is also used in the occult. The illuminati for instance only use the lower triangle, if that speaks for itself?

When the cross is deep red below fading to pure white above it is representative of the separation and union of Heaven and Hell.

As the novel is a comedy about a journey from heaven to hell and back, it made perfect sense to me, but not to anyone else it would seem.

I have probably just convinced myself writing this, that the cover is definitely above most peoples knowledge of the symbolism I meant to portray and should be changed.

Incidentally, the Lorraine cross was adopted by The Knights Templar, ancient and modern, and can still be seen in evidence today.

Thanks for your input.

Levy


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Professor
kevinlomas
Posts: 15,903
Registered: ‎02-11-2010

Re: Return to the forum.

I do not think that when people 'push' their wares in here they expect any form of criticism whatsoever. Even when it is genuinely helpful or even simply asking about some aspect of the publication.

This is a self-publishing site full of self-publishers, many who not only create their own products and sell them but do it for others also. Some of us have been at 'it' since before PCs. Many of us have also been published by other 'real' publishers. We also take the time to give advice for free, often saving a lot of heartache, time, and money. Take it or leave it ...

If all you want is a glowing review of a story, then try a review site, or a newspaper, but be prepared for what they say because they are not often glowing and can really ruin your day.

I note that those who call this 'snipping' ignore the amazingly egotistical and rude replies to the advice given, also ...

Not that I wish to get in to this old argument again about 'real' publishers. It is rare that they do publish any one 'new', but that 'new' person that they do occasionally take on may only be new to novels and already well-known on the short story network. Or they may be a famous TV chef or whatever.

 

 

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Author
gobbo
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎02-21-2011

Re: Return to the forum.

Peter.

Thank you for your comments earlier. I have conceded defeat in the face of stiff opposition and have re-done the opening prologue of Eddie down to a single page, as I feel it is important to the book that his past becomes known in the beginning, as that is where all his psychosis stems from. The story now begins on page three.

Perhaps you could have a look and give me your input.

Other comments including yours have led me to believe that the cover of Drax could do with being redesigned due to the symbolism of the double cross not being widely known, and maybe a change of Title.

So thank you for your advice.

Regards

Levy

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