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Librarian
kevinlomas
Posts: 12,538
Registered: ‎02-11-2010

Re: My first novel - looking for any feedback or reviews. :)

[ Edited ]

Basic punctuation does break up sentences for speech effects, moods and such like. A comma can change the whole meaning of a, sentence, and a full stop can, stop it. I play around with them for ages. There are other types of punctuation though that can complicate: matters.
But also there are using the wrong words, such as wrote instead of written and vice versa. Or the very common now - less - when it should be fewer, not to mention the lack of ' in a lot of signwriting, causing people to think that is normal

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Ron Miller
Posts: 1,677
Registered: ‎02-11-2010

Re: My first novel - looking for any feedback or reviews. :)

Think of punctuation as being like the rests and pauses used in music. They give rythm and cadence and pacing to your story.

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Editor
scamdetectives
Posts: 125
Registered: ‎02-17-2011

Re: My first novel - looking for any feedback or reviews. :)

A college professor wrote this phrase on his blackboard and asked one male and one female student to punctuate it:

 

A woman without her man is nothing

 

The male student wrote:

A woman, without her man, is nothing.

 

The female student wrote:

A woman; without her, man is nothing.

 

Do you see how punctuation can completely change the meaning of a sentence?

 

 

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Author
francesn
Posts: 43
Registered: ‎06-29-2011

Re: My first novel - looking for any feedback or reviews. :)

 

Yes, I understand that it can change a sentence, to mean one thing or another.

I'm saying to the best of my knowledge, my story is written correctly, with the sentences having the right tone etc... but everyone says otherwise, this my problem.

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Editor
matthewcchiversathotmaildotcodotuk
Posts: 230
Registered: ‎06-25-2010

Re: My first novel - looking for any feedback or reviews. :)

Do your friends or family have an issue reading them?

I know it will sound harsh saying this, but if by everyone you mean the Lulu community, then try not to take the criticism to heart too much.

After all, the people offering "advice" or "constructive" criticism on Lulu are MERELY like you and me - self-publishers. Do they have any qualifications on what they preach? I certainly don't know - nor do they advertise this fact.

For example, my first book was proofed by Ann Richards at: http://www.applepipsediting.co.uk/

All her credentials were in the Writers and Artists yearbook at the time I had it edited.

However, soon as I published my first book, all I had was a BOMBARDMENT from the community in Authors Spotlight (with many of the community offering "advice" - there is a specific forum for such a thing on Connect, but we will ignore this fact) - all telling me it had problems, and to be fair, most of them nigley things that even the ordinary person would not even pick up in reading it (aside from the grammar *ahem* war mongers).

Yet, they did not go to great lengths to help - it left me winded, upset, and downright deflated - that is my first time using Lulu Connect, and I must say, it almost put me off...mission accomplished perhaps? Today many of those same people that offered me "advice" are still pouring the same **** down new authors gullets - consistantly floating around Author Spotlight as if to raise the alarm of a badly written book, or of one where the art work sucks - I'm sorry, I mean "needs more work".

Ultimately, that is what I think is a negative aspect with the Lulu Connect community. There are a few authors that do live on Connect, almost religiously infact, and they will appear to go around as if they are forum moderators, or are in fact brilliant at their own story writing whilst everyone else clearly sucks - they make little effort for individual cases because they have seen the problems appear consistantly, even with a professionals help.

Very happy to point out problems - but do not go to lengths to offer - unless you ask them, then you may have satiated their egos to their satisfactions lol.

There are some that may even be in it to discourage anyone from even buying other books - you could say that many Independant Publishers on Lulu are in direct competition with each other. After all, it is a growing trend in the electronic age - 1,000 books in a search entry 10 years ago is now 10,000 books today - the odds of your book appearing to anyone is 1 in 10,000 (all example). Then it has odds of appealing to that 1 in 10,000 with the cover art - then the odds of reading the synopsis...as you can see, the odds don't get easy.

This is where marketing comes in - Author Spotlight is one example (surprise, surprise!).
You will need to be the one that pushes the book - and the best way of doing that is to advertise it on the forum, because Lulu helpfully lets you know that Connect is an amazing experiance, right? - but its much harder to believe in yourself, and in your writing, if you were blown down by a couple of other self-publishers using the very same system that could have helped you - where is all that energy gone from that natural high?

After all, many of us here have forever dreamed of writing a book, and just want people to know - it makes us feel special for a day. It makes you feel that against all the odds, you have succeeded and achieved your dream.

Sure, it looks perfect, and sure it may have some rough edges here and there - hell, my friends inform me they find mistakes in Terry Pratchett novels all the time - readers expect it, they know nothing is perfect - and you think it is ready to be known to the world. Your 5 minutes of fame at last!!! Because everything else in life sucks (and don't we all know it) - bills need paying, work is stressful, the kids are playing up, the college papers need to be complete - lots of nights and lots of stress - but out of all of these hardships - you managed to accomplish something that many people only dream of doing - it doesn't matter if its self-published - at the end of the day you have spent hundreds of man hours slaving away over it.

Are we allowed that right? Apparantly not.

Only to add to the stress are the criticisms from life long members that live on Connect - your 5 minutes of fame totally destroyed - your faith in yourself deteriorating. And that is not all, because to upset one, is almost gauranteed to upset another one of them. You are almost treated like an invader wasp to a hive of honey bees - more guards come rushing in to make sure they keep others pushed out.

As an independant publisher, that is something you need to drive you. And if others try and take that away, or have started to, then you may be on a downward spiral.

It is no small wonder then, that the nee-naw police will swoop in - disecting every sentance, every comma, every syllable, every full stop, every margin, page numbers, copy right pages, cover art, ISBN's, and yes, even the type of FONT used - even if it is clearly written and tidy and sets the style and feel of your novel.

One tip here is to disect theirs privately - you'll be pleasantly surprised at how hypocritical some of them can be with their own revisions of their works. Again, all in the eyes of the beholder.

And as you may be aware, authors are not the only people that read the Authors Spotlight - many customers do aswell - I'll repeat that. Many customers read the Authors Spotlight - it is again, another small wonder, that this part of the Connect community is napalm bombed every couple of days with criticism, whilst their banner posts advertise their own services, or novels (oh would you look at that, such a co-incidence!).

Most have many titles under their belts, but what they do not tell you is that at one stage, they too were in the same position as you. However, they will not come across as someone who has made errors themselves, in their whole entire existance.

However, I will finish up by saying that the things pointed out in this thread, such as copyright, are quite valid - but you have the power to work on it a little more to change it, yet still retain the ideas and drive that made you write the story in the first place.

Read your book out loud, and if it makes sense, then ignore the Connect napalm strikes :smileywink:


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"Those who let fate lead them roll the dice. Those who lead themselves never roll them at all." - Orchestra, Vol. II.
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Author
francesn
Posts: 43
Registered: ‎06-29-2011

Re: My first novel - looking for any feedback or reviews. :)

 

Matthew, thanks for your post :smileyhappy:

I'm not sure what to say.

I didn't mean just people on here. It's weird because the people who read it (all 3 of them) and liked it regardless of grammar mistakes etc aren't English and the people who are English have said it's unreadable passed the first chapter.

I don't have anyone else to share it with. Fancy a read?

At the moment, I'm just editing out the copyright stuff. Which was a valid point that come up and I'm addressing that.

I know people have said that grammar can't be overlooked... but I don't think my story is unreadable, not that it will be without errors.

It's for example, when you watch TV, sometimes you have to overlook stuff, and these can be things that are major plotlines that don't make sense, it hasn't stopped shows getting viewers.

I'm kind of at the stage now where I think, just read it and then tell me what sucks, not the other way around. Chapter 1, may have bad sentence structure etc (that I can't see for love nor money) but then chapter 9 say, could have a great bit of story too it (this is just for example, I'm not saying it has). But if a reader wont read on, how would they know.

I'm not good at explaining what I mean... I hope you understand what I'm trying to say?

:smileyhappy:

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Librarian
kevinlomas
Posts: 12,538
Registered: ‎02-11-2010

Re: My first novel - looking for any feedback or reviews. :)

People can also read things differently. They may wish a comma to be somewhere else so it reads how they think it should. People are strange.
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Editor
matthewcchiversathotmaildotcodotuk
Posts: 230
Registered: ‎06-25-2010

Re: My first novel - looking for any feedback or reviews. :)

I may not be the best for it, but if you send me the word doc to my email, I'll take a look at it for you and make a second copy - I'll go through some of the basics (that I know of) and see if I can help you with the first chapter by highlighting changes that you can visibly see, etc.

email address: matthewchivers@approachingdarkage.com

I have given it a read before mind, and I didn't see what all the fuss was about - I ussually only switch on my "grammar warmonger" when I'm proofing my own books - I'm rarely critical of a story unless a dyslexic 5 year old wrote it...but then, that's just cruel :smileywink:

(p.s. the dyslexic joke is a crack at myself - no one else.)

I'll see what I can do to point out some stuff for you - I find that if you are shown, that is the best educator!


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"Those who let fate lead them roll the dice. Those who lead themselves never roll them at all." - Orchestra, Vol. II.
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Librarian
kevinlomas
Posts: 12,538
Registered: ‎02-11-2010

Re: My first novel - looking for any feedback or reviews. :)

I for one am not always sure what a 'professional' is when it comes to things like English. Often peoples' view of it depends on the era in which they learned it and who off. (Personally I write in an 'old fashioned' manner, old boy).

The many levels of qualifications in English in the UK, for example, often contradict each other as well. As do many guide books on the subject.

It can also matter a great deal if English it not your first language and you were not taught it by a 'natural' English speaker, also, as well, too.

All the above can make a difference on how an editor works over your manuscript also. Often it can be a simple matter of how pedantic some are, not to mention just what level of English they are trained to. Never assume that anyone who sets themselves up as something and charges for it, are actually qualified at the level they need to be, or at all (nowadays they may just be running it through Word or something).

I for one never really read the Previews as such. I 'scan' them. Some things stick out like a sore thumb and I will comment on that, otherwise I restrict myself to commenting on how it looks. Just look how long this thread has become when people do start to comment on the words.  :smileysurprised:

 

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Author
francesn
Posts: 43
Registered: ‎06-29-2011

Re: My first novel - looking for any feedback or reviews. :)

[ Edited ]

 

Thanks for the comments.

Matthew, aww thanks. I'll try and get the revised (copyright  stuff taken out) version to you maybe tomorrow or Thursday. Will a PDF file do... I'm working in OpenOffice, and don't have word on my laptop. PDF is better because everything is layout as it should be, I know your not looking at that but still.

Even if you point out some stuff, and just read it purely for the story.

Again, thank you :smileyvery-happy:

So what your saying is grammar is quite subjective... what I was taught say 20 years ago, might be different to someone now or even 10 years before me.

If this is the case, why have people jumped on what appears to be, not that bigger deal, Aas I said I think it's well written enough to understand the storyline. :smileysad:

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