I am confused about setting bleeds

edited February 11 in Print Books
Hi. I am making an 8.5x8.5 print book with text and full-page photographs. I am a bit confused about the instructions for getting the photos to go to the edge of the page in a Word doc. Obviously, I want the text to have margins, so how do I just get the photo pages to go right to the edge? I downloaded the template for the book size. Do I create the photographs 0.125 inches bigger all round or what? Cos if I insert the image in the Word doc, the photo adjusts to the margin size.

Or do I set the bleed marks when I convert to PDF?? Please help!
Christine
P.S. please also answer my question in the first comment
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  • edited February 11
    and secondly, my doc has headers and footers with text in. If I make the photo full bleed, will it print with the header and footer text on top of it, or will it hide it?
    Thanks,
    Christine
  • Hi chrisbeadsatpolkadotcodotza,

    The full bleed size for a square book is 8.75 x 8.75. I would recommend making your pages that size first. Then you can try dragging the image to the edge of the page size, and choose for the picture to have the text wrapping "behind text".

    If the "behind" text" option does not work, then I would try resizing the image with no text wrapping option applied.

    To your second question: when setting the text wrapping of the picture to "behind text", any text such as headers and footers, should appear on top of the image.

    However, please note that Word is not designed for full bleed printing with photographs in mind. A program like Indesign is much more suited for this purpose.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    Another option is to use Word's Sections options. That way you can have different margin settings for the pages of text, and others for the images. But if I was you I would use the text margin settings for the images also. A Gutter as used on text pages can be important because it can stop the content getting 'lost' at the bound edge as it would if you go right to the edge.
  • When you say to make my pages 8.75 x 8.75, do I then change the size afterward to the 8.5 which the book size requires? I am thinking my text will get cropped if I do not change it back...

    Re Word, I am using the Lulu template I downloaded and will then convert to pdf before upload. I hope this won't mess things up witht he images.

    I have too much trouble getting the page numbers right when I have too many sections, been down this road with another book so no desire to go there!! It was a nightmare.

    Thanks for your help!
  • Sorry, another question, if I don't want the header AND FOOTER TO SHOW ON THE PAGE WITH THE IMAGES, DO i JUST SET IT TO 'IN FRONT OF TEXT'?
    Whoops, excuse capitals  :)
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    When you say to make my pages 8.75 x 8.75, do I then change the size afterward to the 8.5 which the book size requires?

    No, because what would be the point of creating at 8.75 x 8.75 in the first place?

     I am thinking my text will get cropped if I do not change it back...

    I agree, it is a dilemma. Full bleed is normally used for two-page spreads, where the left of one half of the image overlaps the other half's right edge, so that when bound the centre of the image is not 'trapped' in the 3/8th" binding. Does that make sense?! Each image half is just slightly over-sized, one at the right edge and one at the left edge so that it is still a complete image even when bound at the spine. They do not usually leave the external margins, though, just at the spine.

    Re Word, I am using the Lulu template I downloaded and will then convert to pdf before upload. I hope this won't mess things up witht he images.

    People often convert to PDF so that the Convertor does not mess with the content.  :)

    I have too much trouble getting the page numbers right when I have too many sections, been down this road with another book so no desire to go there!! It was a nightmare.

    Setting up Headers and Footers for different Sections can be just that! But, "Sorry, another question, if I don't want the header AND FOOTER TO SHOW ON THE PAGE WITH THE IMAGES, DO i JUST SET IT TO 'IN FRONT OF TEXT'?
    Whoops, excuse capitals"  you will have no choice if you want to do that. But the other option is to not have any Headers and Footers! Not all books do. But it is a lot simpler to have a Header or Footer just with the page number in, and even pages with just an image on have those.

    Can I ask why you want images that leave the margins?


  • Hi chrisbeadsatpolkadotcodotza,

    We recommend to submit a full bleed file (8.75 x 8.75) to ensure that our system doesn't add the bleed for you.

    If you submit an 8.5 x 8.5 file, our system will add the bleed to the file and it will have a white border.

    I would recommend to have nothing in the footer or header on the pages with images versus trying to have the picture in front of the page number.
  • @Just Kevin 'Can I ask why you want images that leave the margins?'

    I don't really but it just seems simpler to have the whole file with margins.

    @Taylor 'We recommend to submit a full bleed file (8.75 x 8.75) to ensure that our system doesn't add the bleed for you' 

    so then how big to i make the margins on the pages that have text?
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    @Just Kevin 'Can I ask why you want images that leave the margins?'

    I don't really but it just seems simpler to have the whole file with margins.

    Indeed! Just create your images to the size to fit within the margins (and before you paste them in.)

    @Taylor 'We recommend to submit a full bleed file (8.75 x 8.75) to ensure that our system doesn't add the bleed for you' 

    so then how big to i make the margins on the pages that have text?

    It actually now sounds to me that you don't really want any type of bleed, so just ignore the adjustments for bleed.


  • It actually now sounds to me that you don't really want any type of bleed, so just ignore the adjustments for bleed.

    That's inaccurate. If there are images that the chrisbeadsatpolkadotcodotza wishes to have extend to the edge of the printed page, that is Full Bleed. 
    If there are images that should cover to the edge of the page and the file is not prepared to Full Bleed specifications, there will be white margins visible on those pages.
  • Hi chrisbeadsatpolkadotcodotza,

    We would recommend to add the bleed size (0.125") to the margins. We recommend margins be at least 0.5" with a gutter of 0.3".

    However, the final specifications are up to the author.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    Paul_Lulu said:

    It actually now sounds to me that you don't really want any type of bleed, so just ignore the adjustments for bleed.

    That's inaccurate.

    No it's not, if you read all of the thread.

     If there are images that the chrisbeadsatpolkadotcodotza wishes to have extend to the edge of the printed page, that is Full Bleed.

    Apparently he does not actually require that.
     
    If there are images that should cover to the edge of the page and the file is not prepared to Full Bleed specifications, there will be white margins visible on those pages.

    Indeed, but >>   "@Just Kevin 'Can I ask why you want images that leave the margins?'

    I don't really but it just seems simpler to have the whole file with margins."

    At times, rather looking for the solution to a problem it's better to see if the problem exists in the first place.

  • Hi. I am making an 8.5x8.5 print book with text and full-page photographs. 
    This requires full bleed. 

    So I'll say it again - if there are images that need to extend to the edge of the page, that is Full Bleed and requires the file being prepared as such.
  • Thank you, Paul,
    It does look more professional to have a full page photograph as full bleed. I do have one more question. You said I must add the 'the bleed size (0.125") to the margins. We recommend margins be at least 0.5" with a gutter of 0.3".'

    I assume that for the full bleed photograph page, I just snap the photo file to the edge of the page?

    And just by the way, I am a girl! Christine...
  • Oh and I am making my doc on Word, so is full bleed sorted out just by the page size or do I have to adjust anything else?
  • Christine,

    First apologies for the confusion with your name!

    I want to caution that Full Bleed in Word can be a headache. But to achieve it, you do set the page size to the Full Bleed dimensions, in this case 8.75 x 8.75. If you use the standard margins of 0.5, adding the 0.125 would be wise on all pages with margins. Same for the gutter - we include bleed on all four sides when preparing the book.

    You're correct that the image would be snapped to the edge of the page. This is where it can become tricky with the margins. You'll need to be sure your pages will full bleed images don't have content in the Header/Footer, and that the margins on those pages have the margin adjusted properly. 

    Here's a sample screen shot to illustrate:



    Note that a section break is used to control the Header/Footer and margin for a specific page.

    Then you can Insert the image and use the image controls to align it properly. 



    Under 'More Layout Options' and under the Position tab there are more controls to align the image on the page correctly. 

    Also note that the export will warn you for each page with content 'outside the printable area' and you'll have to acknowledge each.
  • That looks great, but you know, I am a bit nervous about section breaks and the effect on page numbers. My last book was a bit of a nightmare getting the page numbers right. So after pondering the whole thing, I have decided to just put my images inside the borders of the margins. I want to publish next week and also sleep at night in between, so maybe later I will just try a sample doc and get the hang of all that is involved before tackling full bleed pics in a subsequent publication.

    Thank you so much for your help. Just a last question, my file is now 8.75 x8.75. Is it okay to leave it like that or should I convert it back to 8.5 all round?
  • You can leave it at 8.75 x 8.75 if you've allowed for the extra size in the margins. We'll trim it down to 8.5 x 8.5 while binding.

    I don't blame you for leaving them off at the moment. MS Word is pretty terrible for any layout that goes beyond text. 

    If you have experience with InDesign, Serif is running a free beta test of an alternative called Affinity Publisher. It works much like InDesign and is a great option for book layout. I used it to layout a book about a month ago and it worked quite well.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    A further alternative would be to upload your book in a number of files rather than one. Files of text pages with margins etc, and files of image pages with no margins, it would save having multi-Sections in one file, and the headache that can cause, all of the same size of page of course. If you upload them in the right order the Wizard will converge them in to one file.
  • A further alternative would be to upload your book in a number of files rather than one. Files of text pages with margins etc, and files of image pages with no margins, it would save having multi-Sections in one file, and the headache that can cause, all of the same size of page of course. If you upload them in the right order the Wizard will converge them in to one file.

    Actually, I confirmed with my print team and if you want the file to print without Lulu adding the full bleed white border, it would need to be one file.

    Uploading multiple files is allowed but we will resize them (when combining) and we will add a white border.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    I did mean following the bleed and full bleed measurements still added to every page in every file. But the pages in some of the files not actually having any margins, the ones with the images in, using different settings as per Sections would be if using one file, but each Section is a different file. Do you mean that when the Wizard combines them in to one PR PDF it negates the page sizes set for bleed etc?
  • I did mean following the bleed and full bleed measurements still added to every page in every file. But the pages in some of the files not actually having any margins, the ones with the images in, using different settings as per Sections would be if using one file, but each Section is a different file. Do you mean that when the Wizard combines them in to one PR PDF it negates the page sizes set for bleed etc?

    Correct. While Lulu's converter can combine multiple PDFs, the converter will not recognize that you have bleed settings and will resize your document, thus resulting in white borders in the combined single print-ready file. These white borders are then at risk of printing in the physical copies. You have to combine multiple PDFs (all at the correct bleed size, i.e. with the 0.25" bleed) before you upload.


  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    Hrmm, interesting. Some people do use the multi-file method and including bleed etc, but have not seen them mentioned that problem.
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