It's no doubt good to get an award for fiction, but ...

There's just so many! I often wonder if I invented an award and gave it to myself and put it on my covers, if anyone would know it would not exactly be 'genuine'?! Then again, perhaps some are not  :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_literary_awards

The Lomas Award For This Book, 2019

Comments

  • I suspect you are right!

    There are a great many literary awards that are pretty well known, of course---the Caldecott, Newbery, Man Booker, Edgar and Hugo awards, for instance, among others---but I all too often see a fancy looking seal on a book that might say something like "Reader's Award" on it or some such thing...and wonder what in the world it is.
    __________________________________________
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  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    It's a bit like the awards supermarkets get. Best Super Market of 2018. A few get that, from different places. Makes it all pointless.
  • SeamusSeamus Creator
    and each one is a minimum $75-$80
    Tim Reinholt Author of Pow, a ski bum heist adventure
  • It's a bit like the awards supermarkets get. Best Super Market of 2018. A few get that, from different places. Makes it all pointless.
    I wouldn't go quite that far. Seeing "Caldecott Medal" or "Hugo Award Winner" on the cover of a book has, I would think, a little more meaning for most readers than a "Reader's Choice" tag. Recognized awards go a long way, too, towards influencing buyers at bookstores, libraries, etc. One of the top five or ten literary awards is the National Book Award. To take just the first examples I can find figures for, after National Book Award fiction winner The Round House won it sold 30,000 of its 47,000 copy first printing. In just the first week after winning, the book saw a 143% increase at the outlets tracked by BookScan. Behind the Beautiful Forevers was already a success before it won the Nonfiction award, moving 75,000 copies, but its weekly sales jumped to 1,200 from 300 immediately following its win.

    An award is also a great thing to have in hand when introducing yourself to an editor or publisher. Robert A. Gottlieb, president and editor in chief of Alfred A. Knopf, once observed that if "...awards come early in a career, they can can help establish a writer, particularly a novelist....The award for 'Goodbye Columbus' helped establish Philip Roth as a major new writer.'' I know that the awards and citations my books have received have gone a long ways toward having a proposal taken more seriously by an editor.
    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    I wouldn't go quite that far. Seeing "Caldecott Medal" or "Hugo Award Winner" on the cover of a book has, I would think, a little more meaning for most readers than a "Reader's Choice" tag. 

    Oh I am sure they do, even though I have only heard of the Hugo one. One of my sons recently bought be a trilogy that's won it 3 times in a row, the last one last year, but I have to be honest and say I have never heard of the writer, which often, unfortunately, can put me off, but I will give the books a chance.

    Recognized awards go a long way, too, towards influencing buyers at bookstores, libraries, etc.

    No doubt, but the only time I see that a book has an award, is when I see it on the  cover. I rarely browse for books, anywhere other than used book shops, and even that's not often. One also has to wonder if a potential buyer even knows what an award means and if they have even heard of it. At least the Hugo one has been around a long time so is recognisable. Some writers win countless awards, well-knownish awards too, but it's rarely mentioned on the cover. (Unlike the three I mentioned above that have actual stickers on them.)

     One of the top five or ten literary awards is the National Book Award. To take just the first examples I can find figures for, after National Book Award fiction winner The Round House won it sold 30,000 of its 47,000 copy first printing. In just the first week after winning, the book saw a 143% increase at the outlets tracked by BookScan. Behind the Beautiful Forevers was already a success before it won the Nonfiction award, moving 75,000 copies, but its weekly sales jumped to 1,200 from 300 immediately following its win.

    Yes, I can understand that, even though I have never heard of that award. It could be because I  never read newspapers or magazines or visit Goodreads, or whatever. When you take in to consideration I currently have seven books awaiting to be read already!

    An award is also a great thing to have in hand when introducing yourself to an editor or publisher. Robert A. Gottlieb, president and editor in chief of Alfred A. Knopf, once observed that if "...awards come early in a career, they can can help establish a writer, particularly a novelist....The award for 'Goodbye Columbus' helped establish Philip Roth as a major new writer.'' I know that the awards and citations my books have received have gone a long ways toward having a proposal taken more seriously by an editor.

    None traditionally published books get awards? Interesting. Or does that mean some writers get awards for short fiction published on fiction sites or whatever?

    One thing I  have noticed about many awards is they are not free to enter, and the entrance fee can be quite substantial. I think one of the few that one cannot even enter at all is the Hugo. The judges vote over some book or books they have read and champion it for votes I don't think it's even possible to discover who the judges are for the current year.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    I have not looked at them in detail, but >>    https://www.thebookdesigner.com/book-awards/

    To be honest I think far too many award givers are just in it for the dosh.
  • I wouldn't go quite that far. Seeing "Caldecott Medal" or "Hugo Award Winner" on the cover of a book has, I would think, a little more meaning for most readers than a "Reader's Choice" tag. 

    Oh I am sure they do, even though I have only heard of the Hugo one. One of my sons recently bought be a trilogy that's won it 3 times in a row, the last one last year, but I have to be honest and say I have never heard of the writer, which often, unfortunately, can put me off, but I will give the books a chance.

    I have to admit that I am pretty astonished to learn that you have never heard of the Caldecott medal! Or at least seen the beautiful gold seal on the books honored!

    Recognized awards go a long way, too, towards influencing buyers at bookstores, libraries, etc.

    No doubt, but the only time I see that a book has an award, is when I see it on the  cover. I rarely browse for books, anywhere other than used book shops, and even that's not often. One also has to wonder if a potential buyer even knows what an award means and if they have even heard of it.

    Well, I don't think you should probably use yourself as an example! 

    At least the Hugo one has been around a long time so is recognisable.

    The Caldecott and Newbery Awards have been around much longer. 

    Some writers win countless awards, well-knownish awards too, but it's rarely mentioned on the cover. (Unlike the three I mentioned above that have actual stickers on them.)

    I can not think of a time in which an author or their book has won a major literary award and not seen that mentioned somewhere on the cover of a book. The fact that most of these awards are in fact both well-known and meaningful is the reason they are often displayed pretty blatantly. 
    Image result for book covers with award notices  
    Image result for book covers with award notices
    Image result for book covers with award notices

     One of the top five or ten literary awards is the National Book Award. To take just the first examples I can find figures for, after National Book Award fiction winner The Round House won it sold 30,000 of its 47,000 copy first printing. In just the first week after winning, the book saw a 143% increase at the outlets tracked by BookScan. Behind the Beautiful Forevers was already a success before it won the Nonfiction award, moving 75,000 copies, but its weekly sales jumped to 1,200 from 300 immediately following its win.

    Yes, I can understand that, even though I have never heard of that award.

    You need to get out more.

    It could be because I  never read newspapers or magazines or visit Goodreads, or whatever. When you take in to consideration I currently have seven books awaiting to be read already!

    An award is also a great thing to have in hand when introducing yourself to an editor or publisher. Robert A. Gottlieb, president and editor in chief of Alfred A. Knopf, once observed that if "...awards come early in a career, they can can help establish a writer, particularly a novelist....The award for 'Goodbye Columbus' helped establish Philip Roth as a major new writer.'' I know that the awards and citations my books have received have gone a long ways toward having a proposal taken more seriously by an editor.

    None traditionally published books get awards? Interesting. Or does that mean some writers get awards for short fiction published on fiction sites or whatever?

    I'm not sure if I follow your question! If I take it that you interpreted what I posted as suggesting that traditionally published books don't get awards, you are certainly dead wrong about that. Or perhaps you are thinking that the awards that help get authors jump-started came before they were traditionally published. You are wrong there, too. The examples I cited in my 11:03 am post were all traditionally published. They were doing well enough but once they received awards this not only significantly boosted sales of the books but added a great deal of credibility to the authors. At Gottlieb said, when "awards come early in a career, they can can help establish a writer." An author can have a dozen traditionally published books before getting their Pulitzer. I certainly got no prizes for my first books...but you can bet that I point out the ones I've gotten since then every time I pitch an idea.

    One thing I  have noticed about many awards is they are not free to enter, and the entrance fee can be quite substantial. I think one of the few that one cannot even enter at all is the Hugo. The judges vote over some book or books they have read and champion it for votes I don't think it's even possible to discover who the judges are for the current year.

    For a traditionally published book, the publisher takes care of any entry fees (another one of the perks of traditional publishing). Some awards require fees, others ask only that titles be submitted, while other awards are given to books chosen entirely by the judges or a committee and can come as complete surprises to everyone. (Regarding the Hugos, there are no judges. Books are nominated by members of the World Science Fiction Convention. The top nominees are then voted on by the membership. The book with the most votes wins.)


    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    I wouldn't go quite that far. Seeing "Caldecott Medal" or "Hugo Award Winner" on the cover of a book has, I would think, a little more meaning for most readers than a "Reader's Choice" tag. 

    Oh I am sure they do, even though I have only heard of the Hugo one. One of my sons recently bought be a trilogy that's won it 3 times in a row, the last one last year, but I have to be honest and say I have never heard of the writer, which often, unfortunately, can put me off, but I will give the books a chance.

    I have to admit that I am pretty astonished to learn that you have never heard of the Caldecott medal! Or at least seen the beautiful gold seal on the books honored!

    Perhaps some awards don't travel well to the UK?  :) But no I have never seen it. Oh, that one is for American picture books for children. I am not sure I have ever seen such a thing.


    Recognized awards go a long way, too, towards influencing buyers at bookstores, libraries, etc.

    No doubt, but the only time I see that a book has an award, is when I see it on the  cover. I rarely browse for books, anywhere other than used book shops, and even that's not often. One also has to wonder if a potential buyer even knows what an award means and if they have even heard of it.

    Well, I don't think you should probably use yourself as an example! 


    No doubt that's true, but I do as one of those rare creatures, a reader.


    At least the Hugo one has been around a long time so is recognisable.

    The Caldecott and Newbery Awards have been around much longer. 


    But that's another one for American children's books, I don't happen to be American or a child, and I don't recall the awards from when I was. I don't recall reading American kid's books to my sons, either, there's quite a dirge on Bit written and published ones, not that I took much notice of who published them, I just tried to stay awake reading them to my kids over and over again.


    Some writers win countless awards, well-knownish awards too, but it's rarely mentioned on the cover. (Unlike the three I mentioned above that have actual stickers on them.)

    I can not think of a time in which an author or their book has won a major literary award and not seen that mentioned somewhere on the cover of a book. The fact that most of these awards are in fact both well-known and meaningful is the reason they are often displayed pretty blatantly. 
      
    Perhaps it's the American way of marketing books? I have just looked amongst the pile of books I own, all by famous writers, and not one has a sticker on. Usually in the blurb they do say "from the award winning writer of … ". But it could be possible they were bought before they gained an award?

     One of the top five or ten literary awards is the National Book Award. To take just the first examples I can find figures for, after National Book Award fiction winner The Round House won it sold 30,000 of its 47,000 copy first printing. In just the first week after winning, the book saw a 143% increase at the outlets tracked by BookScan. Behind the Beautiful Forevers was already a success before it won the Nonfiction award, moving 75,000 copies, but its weekly sales jumped to 1,200 from 300 immediately following its win.

    Yes, I can understand that, even though I have never heard of that award.

    You need to get out more.

    What, to the USA? But if not, out to where?



    An award is also a great thing to have in hand when introducing yourself to an editor or publisher. Robert A. Gottlieb, president and editor in chief of Alfred A. Knopf, once observed that if "...awards come early in a career, they can can help establish a writer, particularly a novelist....The award for 'Goodbye Columbus' helped establish Philip Roth as a major new writer.'' I know that the awards and citations my books have received have gone a long ways toward having a proposal taken more seriously by an editor.

    None traditionally published books get awards? Interesting. Or does that mean some writers get awards for short fiction published on fiction sites or whatever?

    I'm not sure if I follow your question! If I take it that you interpreted what I posted as suggesting that traditionally published books don't get awards, you are certainly dead wrong about that.

    Nope, I dint say owt like that. It's this I referred to >> "
    I know that the awards and citations my books have received have gone a long ways toward having a proposal taken more seriously by an editor." Which I assume means a commisioning editor?

     Or perhaps you are thinking that the awards that help get authors jump-started came before they were traditionally published.


    No, published at all in novel form. What are they getting awards for, that would impress a commisoing editor, if not for previously published works? Which is surely a reccomendation in itself.

     You are wrong there, too. The examples I cited in my 11:03 am post were all traditionally published. They were doing well enough but once they received awards this not only significantly boosted sales of the books but added a great deal of credibility to the authors. At Gottlieb said, when "awards come early in a career, they can can help establish a writer." An author can have a dozen traditionally published books before getting their Pulitzer. I certainly got no prizes for my first books...but you can bet that I point out the ones I've gotten since then every time I pitch an idea.


    Don't they already know? They should get out more. :)


    One thing I  have noticed about many awards is they are not free to enter, and the entrance fee can be quite substantial. I think one of the few that one cannot even enter at all is the Hugo. The judges vote over some book or books they have read and champion it for votes I don't think it's even possible to discover who the judges are for the current year.

    For a traditionally published book, the publisher takes care of any entry fees (another one of the perks of traditional publishing).

    Indeed. They can risk to afford the $10,000 entry some awards ask for.

     Some awards require fees, others ask only that titles be submitted,

    You need to point out which ones out of the 1000s that seem to exist.

     while other awards are given to books chosen entirely by the judges or a committee and can come as complete surprises to everyone. (Regarding the Hugos, there are no judges. Books are nominated by members of the World Science Fiction Convention. The top nominees are then voted on by the membership. The book with the most votes wins.)

    That sounds like being judged to me.




  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor
    edited January 22

    I have to admit that I am pretty astonished to learn that you have never heard of the Caldecott medal! Or at least seen the beautiful gold seal on the books honored!--RM

    Perhaps some awards don't travel well to the UK?  :) But no I have never seen it. Oh, that one is for American picture books for children. I am not sure I have ever seen such a thing.

    Well, Waterstone's, for one, recognizes the names. They feature books that display the awards prominently. In fact, they sell a book that is a compilation of the best stories and art from Caldecott and Newbery Award winners as well as a book about the awards and their winners.--RM


    Some writers win countless awards, well-knownish awards too, but it's rarely mentioned on the cover. (Unlike the three I mentioned above that have actual stickers on them.)

    I can not think of a time in which an author or their book has won a major literary award and not seen that mentioned somewhere on the cover of a book. The fact that most of these awards are in fact both well-known and meaningful is the reason they are often displayed pretty blatantly. As I have already pointed out, you can find plenty of examples in Waterstones' or WHSmith's catalogs. Here is the very first work of contemporary fiction that appears on the WHSmith website. In case you can't read it, the sticker is for the British Book Award---
    Eleanor Oliphant is Completely Fine Debut Bestseller and Costa First Novel Book Award Winner 2017
    And here is something from the Waterstones page.Again, if can't read it, the award is the most recent Man Booker Prize---
    Milkman Paperback
    --RM
      
    Perhaps it's the American way of marketing books? I have just looked amongst the pile of books I own, all by famous writers, and not one has a sticker on. Usually in the blurb they do say "from the award winning writer of … ". But it could be possible they were bought before they gained an award?

    As I mentioned above, Waterstone's (to take just one example) features any number of books that carry notices on their covers as to the award(s) they have won. These include American as well as British literary awards. WHSmith does exactly the same thing.--RM

     One of the top five or ten literary awards is the National Book Award. To take just the first examples I can find figures for, after National Book Award fiction winner The Round House won it sold 30,000 of its 47,000 copy first printing. In just the first week after winning, the book saw a 143% increase at the outlets tracked by BookScan. Behind the Beautiful Forevers was already a success before it won the Nonfiction award, moving 75,000 copies, but its weekly sales jumped to 1,200 from 300 immediately following its win.--RM

    Yes, I can understand that, even though I have never heard of that award.

    You need to get out more.--RM

    What, to the USA? But if not, out to where?


    Well, perhaps the UK? The Man Booker Prize is one of the most respected literary awards in the world. It is certainly well-known and highly respected here in the States. Some time ago, the Man Booker International Award was established, so that books published or translated into English from any nation could be considered. There is also the prestigious British Book Award.

    This is a Man Booker winner from the WHSmith online shop:
    The Sellout WINNER OF THE MAN BOOKER PRIZE 2016 
    --RM


    An award is also a great thing to have in hand when introducing yourself to an editor or publisher. Robert A. Gottlieb, president and editor in chief of Alfred A. Knopf, once observed that if "...awards come early in a career, they can can help establish a writer, particularly a novelist....The award for 'Goodbye Columbus' helped establish Philip Roth as a major new writer.'' I know that the awards and citations my books have received have gone a long ways toward having a proposal taken more seriously by an editor.--RM

    None traditionally published books get awards? Interesting. Or does that mean some writers get awards for short fiction published on fiction sites or whatever?

    I'm not sure if I follow your question! If I take it that you interpreted what I posted as suggesting that traditionally published books don't get awards, you are certainly dead wrong about that.--RM

    Nope, I dint say owt like that. It's this I referred to >> "
    I know that the awards and citations my books have received have gone a long ways toward having a proposal taken more seriously by an editor." Which I assume means a commisioning editor?

    Of course.--RM

     Or perhaps you are thinking that the awards that help get authors jump-started came before they were traditionally published.--RM


    No, published at all in novel form. What are they getting awards for, that would impress a commisoing editor, if not for previously published works? Which is surely a reccomendation in itself.

    Yes, being previously published (by a traditional publisher, not self-published) helps a lot. But having a work that received a respected award simply amps that up a few notches. As when two authors are submitting work to an editor. One says, "I have had a couple of books published already," while the other author says, "I have had a couple of previously published books. One of them won a Pulitzer."--RM

     One thing I  have noticed about many awards is they are not free to enter, and the entrance fee can be quite substantial. I think one of the few that one cannot even enter at all is the Hugo. The judges vote over some book or books they have read and champion it for votes I don't think it's even possible to discover who the judges are for the current year.

    Anyone---publisher, author or reader---can nominate a book for a Hugo Award. The books that receive the most nominations go onto the ballot, which is then voted on by the convention membership.--RM

    For a traditionally published book, the publisher takes care of any entry fees (another one of the perks of traditional publishing).--RM

    Indeed. They can risk to afford the $10,000 entry some awards ask for.

    Be interesting to know which ones you are talking about.

    Here is a list of some of the most highly respected literary awards in the world along with their entry fees, if any. (You will find most or all of these awards duplicated on most other lists, just in case you might think I am cherry-picking)...

    The Man Booker Award (both the UK and International prizes) asks for no entry fee.
    The National Book Award asks a fee of $135.
    The Pulitzer Prize is open to anyone but there is a $75 entry fee.
    Candidates for the Nobel Prize for Literature are selected by a committee. There is no entry fee required.
    The Costa Book Award (another UK prize) accepts submissions from publishers only.
    The Neustadt Prize requires no entry fee.
    The Hugo Award requires no entry fee.
    The Guardian First Book Award (another UK prize) has sadly been discontinued but while it existed it accepted submissions from publishers only with a fee attached of 150 pounds.
    Bailey's Women's Prize for Fiction (another UK-based award but open to any English-language novels from any nation so long as they are also published in the UK) accepts submissions from publishers only.
    The Edgar Award is open to submissions from publishers and authors internationally with no entry fee.
    The British Book Award has no entry fee.

    I might draw your attention again to the fact that more than 40% of these internationally respected awards are British, just in case you may never have heard of them.--RM


    (Regarding the Hugos, there are no judges. Books are nominated by members of the World Science Fiction Convention. The top nominees are then voted on by the membership. The book with the most votes wins.)--RM

    That sounds like being judged to me.

    Sure. The last Hugo Awards had 8748 "judges."--RM




    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    Well, Waterstone's, for one, recognizes the names. They feature books that display the awards prominently. In fact, they sell a book that is a compilation of the best stories and art from Caldecott and Newbery Award winners as well as a book about the awards and their winners.

    I don't shop in Waterstones, and it would not be in the children's' section if I did!
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    I can not think of a time in which an author or their book has won a major literary award and not seen that mentioned somewhere on the cover of a book.

    Well, I promise you, there are indeed no such medals on any of the 100s of books I own, and most are by award winning writers. R. A. Heinlein, A. C. Clark, Neil Gaiman, to mention just three. But can you see a trend in my reading and buying habits there?   :)

     The fact that most of these awards are in fact both well-known

    To you maybe. Do you keep an eye on who has won what? I really don't know of any book buyers who do.

    and meaningful is the reason they are often displayed pretty blatantly.

    Well, as I say, not on any of the books I own, although some are first editions, perhaps not won an award, yet (at the time). It's often mentioned by "(fill in here) award winner" somewhere in the blurb.

    Well, to be honest, as I previously said I have three new books here by N. K. Jemisin with Hugo medals stuck on them. Remarkably won in three consecutive years (which is unusual is it not? Considering how they are chosen?) But I did not buy them, they were a gift. (The frontmatter of all three are also pages and pages of bits of reviews.) I cannot say that my own buying habits turn towards the winners of awards. I just know what I like, and the jury is out so far on these three books.


     As I have already pointed out, you can find plenty of examples in Waterstones' or WHSmith's catalogs.


    Another place I do not shop. They are too expensive. I buy books from supermarkets where the only 'promotion' of books is the New Out sections, and they are half price.

     Here is the very first work of contemporary fiction that appears on the WHSmith website. In case you can't read it, the sticker is for the British Book Award---

    Are you pointing these place out because they are British? That does not mean I shop there.  :)
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    As I mentioned above, Waterstone's (to take just one example) features any number of books that carry notices on their covers as to the award(s) they have won. These include American as well as British literary awards. WHSmith does exactly the same thing.

    I suspect that you are looking for books that have gained awards. Okay, here's a search of Amazon simply for new fiction. 90,000 results, go ahead and count the awards mentioned if you have the time. Quite a few do say such and such 'best seller at' on them. Some say 'award winning' but not what. But I don't shop on Amazon either. I of course know of the Hugo award because I read SF.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    I have heard of the Man Booker award, but I think you are discussing this with the wrong person. I don't keep an eye out for winners of awards ( I have never heard of last years winner, and am sure I will never read it) I just buy what I know I will like, and in fiction that's always SF.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    Yes, being previously published (by a traditional publisher, not self-published) helps a lot. But having a work that received a respected award simply amps that up a few notches. As when two authors are submitting work to an editor. One says, "I have had a couple of books published already," while the other author says, "I have had a couple of previously published books. One of them won a Pulitzer."

    In one way, that goes to show that they prefer them over new never heard of writers, which is understandable.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    Off hand, I cannot recall which one asked for $10,000 to enter, but there's more to the expense than the actual fee and it all adds up, perhaps that's what I recall. This is interesting >>  https://www.bookdesignmadesimple.com/book-award-contests-are-they-worthwhile/
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    (Damn forum tool! It keeps freezing with a tiny banner that says, "Whoops! There was an error." I think there's a problem with the auto-save.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    Sure. The last Hugo Awards had 8748 "judges."

    So few! I wonder how many different books they read? It would be very interesting to know. Imagine if 8,746 all read and voted for a different book, and two read the same one and voted for that.  :)
  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor
    edited January 22

     The fact that most of these awards are in fact both well-known

    To you maybe. Do you keep an eye on who has won what? I really don't know of any book buyers who do.

    Gee, that must be why all of those books at WHSmith and Waterstones don't display their awards on their covers so prominently.

    Well, to be honest, as I previously said I have three new books here by N. K. Jemisin with Hugo medals stuck on them. Remarkably won in three consecutive years (which is unusual is it not? Considering how they are chosen?) But I did not buy them, they were a gift. (The frontmatter of all three are also pages and pages of bits of reviews.) I cannot say that my own buying habits turn towards the winners of awards. I just know what I like, and the jury is out so far on these three books.

    So what does that do for your argument that book publishers don't display awards on their covers?


     As I have already pointed out, you can find plenty of examples in Waterstones' or WHSmith's catalogs.


    Another place I do not shop. They are too expensive. I buy books from supermarkets where the only 'promotion' of books is the New Out sections, and they are half price.

    Well, this is really a good example of why you shouldn't be applying your personal habits to a broader conclusion.

     Here is the very first work of contemporary fiction that appears on the WHSmith website. In case you can't read it, the sticker is for the British Book Award---

    Are you pointing these place out because they are British? That does not mean I shop there.  :)

    I only did so because you were complaining that my examples had been USAcentric.

    The main reason for mentioning any book stores was to counter your assertion that publishers and booksellers don't particularly care about awards and rarely if ever announce them on book covers (in your words, awards are "rarely mentioned on the cover.")

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Sure. The last Hugo Awards had 8748 "judges."

    So few! I wonder how many different books they read? It would be very interesting to know. Imagine if 8,746 all read and voted for a different book, and two read the same one and voted for that.  :)
    They can't do that if you bothered to read how the nominations and voting are conducted. Let me repeat it for you.

    Nominations for all of the various different Hugo Awards are made by members of the convention (and this can be members who have either attending or non-attending memberships). The books, films, etc. with the most nominations (the top five in each category, if I am not mistaken) are put on the final ballot. These, then, are voted on by the members. So, for instance, members are only voting on the top five novels, not all of the hundreds that might have been nominated.
    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Off hand, I cannot recall which one asked for $10,000 to enter, but there's more to the expense than the actual fee and it all adds up, perhaps that's what I recall. This is interesting >>  https://www.bookdesignmadesimple.com/book-award-contests-are-they-worthwhile/
    Well, isn't that funny? After implying that there were many awards that required $10,000 entry fees you can't remember even one?

    And as for the cons listed in the link you provided, there are not very many. Fees (for reputable awards) are usually modest and for some awards, including many of the major ones, there are no fees. The largest cost that the link mentioned was that of traveling to and attending a ceremony...but this is entirely optional. I don't know of any legitimate award that makes personal attendance a condition. You get your prize whether you are there to accept it or not.
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  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor
    edited January 22
    I have heard of the Man Booker award, but I think you are discussing this with the wrong person.

    No kidding.  
     ;) 
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  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

     The fact that most of these awards are in fact both well-known

    To you maybe. Do you keep an eye on who has won what? I really don't know of any book buyers who do.

    Gee, that must be why all of those books at WHSmith and Waterstones don't display their awards on their covers so prominently.

    Surely it depends on if people look? But you make it sound as if every book has an award, which of  course they don't. This is a search on W. H. Smith for 'Award Winners.' (Books of course, seeing as they are a stationers and distributors.)  https://www.whsmith.co.uk/search/go?af=cat1:books&w=award+winners It's remarkable how many of those do not have some award mantioned on the covers.


    Well, to be honest, as I previously said I have three new books here by N. K. Jemisin with Hugo medals stuck on them. Remarkably won in three consecutive years (which is unusual is it not? Considering how they are chosen?) But I did not buy them, they were a gift. (The frontmatter of all three are also pages and pages of bits of reviews.) I cannot say that my own buying habits turn towards the winners of awards. I just know what I like, and the jury is out so far on these three books.

    So what does that do for your argument that book publishers don't display awards on their covers?

    I said, that no other book I own, by famous award winning writers, have an award mentioned on the cover.


     As I have already pointed out, you can find plenty of examples in Waterstones' or WHSmith's catalogs.


    Another place I do not shop. They are too expensive. I buy books from supermarkets where the only 'promotion' of books is the New Out sections, and they are half price.
     
    Well, this is really a good example of why you shouldn't be applying your personal habits to a broader conclusion.

    Why's that then? Supermarkets (and there are a lot of supermarkets within a few miles of me) sell award winning books also, in fact it was supermarkets who killed off bookshops here long before the internet existed. Also, one of my sons collects the SF MasterWorks series (some cost an arm and a leg!) not one has an award stuck on them.


     Here is the very first work of contemporary fiction that appears on the WHSmith website. In case you can't read it, the sticker is for the British Book Award---

    Are you pointing these place out because they are British? That does not mean I shop there.  :)

    I only did so because you were complaining that my examples had been USAcentric.

    (I will try this again. Every time I highlight something and click CRTL + U, the text vanishes!) Ok, some of the awards you mentioned thet I said I had never heard of were for American books for children. 


    The main reason for mentioning any book stores was to counter your assertion that publishers and booksellers don't particularly care about awards


    I never said that at all. I said I don't base my buying habits on if a new book has won some award.

     and rarely if ever announce them on book covers (in your words, awards are "rarely mentioned on the cover.")


    But they are not, or they would surely be on all the award winning books I own, and they are not. As I keep saying, if the writer has won awards it's often mentioned in the blurb on the back or inside. 
    < Me replying. :)


  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    Nominations for all of the various different Hugo Awards are made by members of the convention (and this can be members who have either attending or non-attending memberships). The books, films, etc. with the most nominations (the top five in each category, if I am not mistaken) are put on the final ballot. These, then, are voted on by the members. So, for instance, members are only voting on the top five novels, not all of the hundreds that might have been nominated

    Well that does not answer what I said, jokingly.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    Well, isn't that funny? After implying that there were many awards that required $10,000 entry fees you can't remember even one?

    I am glad you are not a reporter, I said some, not many. But of course not! I cannot recall every single thing I have heard, seen or read over the decades. Can you?

    And as for the cons listed in the link you provided, there are not very many. Fees (for reputable awards) are usually modest and for some awards, including many of the major ones, there are no fees. The largest cost that the link mentioned was that of traveling to and attending a ceremony...but this is entirely optional.

    Apparently, not if you expect to win.

     I don't know of any legitimate award that makes personal attendance a condition. You get your prize whether you are there to accept it or not.

    I bet some do :)

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor
    edited January 23
    Well, isn't that funny? After implying that there were many awards that required $10,000 entry fees you can't remember even one?

    I am glad you are not a reporter, I said some, not many. But of course not! I cannot recall every single thing I have heard, seen or read over the decades. Can you?

    OK, name “some,” then. Or, as I requested, even one.

    And as for the cons listed in the link you provided, there are not very many. Fees (for reputable awards) are usually modest and for some awards, including many of the major ones, there are no fees. The largest cost that the link mentioned was that of traveling to and attending a ceremony...but this is entirely optional.

    Apparently, not if you expect to win.

    Oh, really?

     I don't know of any legitimate award that makes personal attendance a condition. You get your prize whether you are there to accept it or not.

    I bet some do :)

    You can bet all you like but show me some examples.

    (I might as well mention here that I have twice accepted Hugos for someone who was unable to attend the ceremony and last Fall I received a pretty prestigious award in spite of turning down an invitation to the event.)

    In any case, the conclusion drawn by the author of the article you provided the link for is this:
    Was it worth it for us? Definitely. Did book sales increase and did we recover the costs of entering the contests? No. But people do take notice that our book has won awards, even if they’ve never heard of those particular awards. Potential readers assume that our book was judged by competent professionals in the publishing world, and was deemed by them to be one of the best in its category. So our book has gained prestige. And who knows what the long-term benefits will be? 

    One of the key points the article makes is that you should do your homework before entering any award competition. There are a great many out there at every level of legitimacy. Some are very much worth the effort and expense...others not so much, especially those “awards” that exist only to generate a profit and especially those that present some sort of “award” to every entry. The organization behind any particular award is important as are the quality of the judges. For an award to be worthwhile it needs to be meaningful.


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  • Nominations for all of the various different Hugo Awards are made by members of the convention (and this can be members who have either attending or non-attending memberships). The books, films, etc. with the most nominations (the top five in each category, if I am not mistaken) are put on the final ballot. These, then, are voted on by the members. So, for instance, members are only voting on the top five novels, not all of the hundreds that might have been nominated

    Well that does not answer what I said, jokingly.
    The Worldcon members are judges only in the broadest sense of the word, in the same way that the 7000 voting members of AMPAS are when deciding on the Oscars.
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  • It's a bit like the awards supermarkets get. Best Super Market of 2018. A few get that, from different places. Makes it all pointless.
    I wouldn't go quite that far. Seeing "Caldecott Medal" or "Hugo Award Winner" on the cover of a book has, I would think, a little more meaning for most readers than a "Reader's Choice" tag. Recognized awards go a long way, too, towards influencing buyers at bookstores, libraries, etc. One of the top five or ten literary awards is the National Book Award. To take just the first examples I can find figures for, after National Book Award fiction winner The Round House won it sold 30,000 of its 47,000 copy first printing. In just the first week after winning, the book saw a 143% increase at the outlets tracked by BookScan. Behind the Beautiful Forevers was already a success before it won the Nonfiction award, moving 75,000 copies, but its weekly sales jumped to 1,200 from 300 immediately following its win.

    An award is also a great thing to have in hand when introducing yourself to an editor or publisher. Robert A. Gottlieb, president and editor in chief of Alfred A. Knopf, once observed that if "...awards come early in a career, they can can help establish a writer, particularly a novelist....The award for 'Goodbye Columbus' helped establish Philip Roth as a major new writer.'' I know that the awards and citations my books have received have gone a long ways toward having a proposal taken more seriously by an editor.
    It does impress me if a writer has an Edgar, a Hugo, or a Black Orchid, for example. But I know about those because I'm an avid reader and at the risk of self-flattery, I'm "in the business" so to speak (as we all are, being self-publishers).

    Does the average reader know the difference between an Edgar and a Lomas award?

    In the case of Roth, whom you mention in the last paragraph, the point is made: The awards speak to those who know what the awards mean. I would argue that the boost in sales following an award comes more from the hype and media discussion of the book and its award than from the fact of the award per se. I might not say to myself, "I'd like a new book; I wonder what's won an Edgar this week." But I might say, "I'd like a new book, and there's one on TV that seems to have won some kind of award..."

    I think readers really see it as a promise that the book doesn't suck.
  • "So," he asked, tongue in cheek, "Is it appropriate to leave space in one's cover design to allow for awards one will receive for the book?"
  • Skoob_ym said:
    "So," he asked, tongue in cheek, "Is it appropriate to leave space in one's cover design to allow for awards one will receive for the book?"
    I have been rehearsing my Pulitzer acceptance speech for years now, just in case.
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