Word changes page size slightly

cetowne

I'm working on a book I plan on printing using Lulu xPress, in the Executive size (7" x 10"). I'm using Word 2007, and it refuses to set the paper size required (7.25 x 10.25, including bleed area). To clarify, I can set a Custom paper size of 7.25 x 10.25, but Word automatically changes that to B5(JIS), which is 7.17 x 10.12. And when CutePDF is used to create a PDF file, checking the PDF file properties shows a 7.17 x 10.13 page size. I should note that the same thing happens with the Lulu-supplied Word template for Executive-sized documents, not just with my Word file.

Any suggestions? Does the difference between 7.25 x 10.25 and 7.17 x 10.12 matter enough to worry about? I suspect that in the printing process Lulu would scale the 7.17 x 10.12 page size up to 7.25 x 10.25, then trim off a 0.125" bleed area all around. If so, should I change the margins slightly, and the header/footer heights?

Just Kevin

I'm working on a book I plan on printing using Lulu xPress, in the Executive size (7" x 10"). I'm using Word 2007, and it refuses to set the paper size required (7.25 x 10.25, including bleed area).

Why do you need Bleed for the top and bottom also?

To clarify, I can set a Custom paper size of 7.25 x 10.25, but Word automatically changes that to B5(JIS), which is 7.17 x 10.12.

I have just tried in Word, physically setting Custom Page Size to 7.25 x 10.25, allowed it to change the paper size, then rechecked the setting, and it is still set at 7.25 x 10.25, which it says is B5(JIS.)

 And when CutePDF is used to create a PDF file,

But Word will Save As a PDF. That's often what I upload to Lulu. There's no need to use some other tool.

 checking the PDF file properties shows a 7.17 x 10.13 page size.

And it always keeps the original page size.

 I should note that the same thing happens with the Lulu-supplied Word template for Executive-sized documents, not just with my Word file.

Any suggestions?

I don't know what to suggest. I am using Word 2010, which came as part of Office 2010. And have no such problems with it.

Does the difference between 7.25 x 10.25 and 7.17 x 10.12 matter enough to worry about?

It is quite a large difference, especially if you wish to use Bleed.

 I suspect that in the printing process Lulu would scale the 7.17 x 10.12 page size up to 7.25 x 10.25, then trim off a 0.125" bleed area all around.

I doubt it, or there would be no point in using Bleed. (Which I assume you are using to do double page spreads?)

 If so, should I change the margins slightly, and the header/footer heights?

No, they are on the page, and any trimming done has no idea where the margins etc., are.

Paul_Lulu

Word 2007 is a bit older, so there could simply be some issues with out-putting custom sizes from that software. I'm not sure Microsoft supports Word 2007 anymore either.

But I do have a couple of things that have seemed to make the process more consistent.

Start by naming and saving your custom size. Then set the size, do all your formatting and what not, and finally select all and apply the size again. Note that the page size shouldn't be changed, so just go into the drop down and select it/save again.

Then I go to Print and Save as PDF from the print menu.

This has proven to be the most consistent way to export from Word at a custom size without distorting the pages.

cetowne

Just Kevin wrote:

Why do you need Bleed for the top and bottom also?

Just trying to follow instructions. The FAQs say "Ensure the document includes bleed, 0.125”, in its setup dimensions for correct trimming," and  they recommend using their prepared templates, and all have a 0.125" bleed region all around. For Executive size (which I plan to print), the templates have the paper size as 7.25" x 10.25" (although as noted in my original post, that wasn't "sticking" for me in Word 2007) , and margins all around of 0.63" (0.5" plus 0.125" the bleed area).

I have just tried in Word, physically setting Custom Page Size to 7.25 x 10.25, allowed it to change the paper size, then rechecked the setting, and it is still set at 7.25 x 10.25, which it says is B5(JIS.)

Yes, that's the problem. It says it's B5(JIS), which by definition is 182mm x 257mm (7.17" x 10.12"). In Word 2007, I also could manually set the dimensions to 7.25 x 10.25, but when saved as a PDF using CutePDF, the page size was 7.17 x 10.12.

But Word will Save As a PDF. That's often what I upload to Lulu. There's no need to use some other tool.

Word 2007 doesn't have that option. There is an add-in from Microsoft that enables saving as PDF, but I never installed it because CutePDF has always worked for me, and it works with multiple applications, not just Word. And an FAQ at Lulu mentions it as a way to create the PDF file to be uploaded.

I don't know what to suggest. I am using Word 2010, which came as part of Office 2010. And have no such problems with it.

Yeah, I've thought about upgrading, for multiple reasons, not just this issue. Maybe it's time.

...

I doubt it, or there would be no point in using Bleed. (Which I assume you are using to do double page spreads?)

No, no double page spreads. As noted above, I added the bleed area because the formatting instructions at Lulu say I should, since 0.125" will get trimmed off when the book is printed.

Having said all of the above, I think I've found a solution to my problem, and will describe it in a separate post.

cetowne

Paul_Lulu said:

Word 2007 is a bit older, so there could simply be some issues with out-putting custom sizes from that software. I'm not sure Microsoft supports Word 2007 anymore either.

Me either, but it's what I have. Might be time to upgrade.

But I do have a couple of things that have seemed to make the process more consistent. Start by naming and saving your custom size.

Word 2007 apparently doesn't have the option to do that.

Then I go to Print and Save as PDF from the print menu.

Word 2007 doesn't have that either. (Although as noted in a previous reply, there is an add-in that's available to allow it, that I've never installed.)

Paul_Lulu

cetowne said:

Paul_Lulu said:

Word 2007 is a bit older, so there could simply be some issues with out-putting custom sizes from that software. I'm not sure Microsoft supports Word 2007 anymore either.

Me either, but it's what I have. Might be time to upgrade.

But I do have a couple of things that have seemed to make the process more consistent. Start by naming and saving your custom size.

Word 2007 apparently doesn't have the option to do that.

Then I go to Print and Save as PDF from the print menu.

Word 2007 doesn't have that either. (Although as noted in a previous reply, there is an add-in that's available to allow it, that I've never installed.)

Based on Word 2007's limitations, I think the issue might come down to the fact you are unable to name the custom size. It seems like it is forcing the document into the closest built in size (B5) which is causing the greater issue.

If you're aiming to stay free, Libre Office might work. You can open a DOC file, change the page size, and export a PDF to size. You might find some formatting that needs to be corrected, but on the whole Libre functions much like Word.

cetowne

First, thanks to Just Kevin and Paul_Lulu for responding and trying to help.

I think my problem has been solved by adding a page size via the Control Panel. I learned that under "Control Panel / Hardware and Sound / Devices and Printers / CutePDF Writer / Print server properties / Forms" you can define a new "form" (width and height) and give it a name. I defined "Lulu Executive w bleed" as 7.25 x 10.25. Then in Word 2007, "Lulu Executive w bleed" now appears as one of the choices for paper size under Page Layout / Page Setup. And when creating a PDF file using CutePDF, and checking the Properties, the page size is 7.25 x 10.25.

Paul_Lulu

Oh that's a great solution. Hadn't occurred to me before but that makes sense.

Just Kevin

Why do you need Bleed for the top and bottom also?

Just trying to follow instructions. The FAQs say "Ensure the document includes bleed, 0.125”, in its setup dimensions for correct trimming," and  they recommend using their prepared templates, and all have a 0.125" bleed region all around. For Executive size (which I plan to print), the templates have the paper size as 7.25" x 10.25" (although as noted in my original post, that wasn't "sticking" for me in Word 2007) , and margins all around of 0.63" (0.5" plus 0.125" the bleed area).

You only need Bleed if text or image goes across two facing pages. Is that what you want? It's to allow for what is bound, without 'stealing' any of the image or text. In theory that extra 0.125" should be an overlap area.

I have just tried in Word, physically setting Custom Page Size to 7.25 x 10.25, allowed it to change the paper size, then rechecked the setting, and it is still set at 7.25 x 10.25, which it says is B5(JIS.)

Yes, that's the problem. It says it's B5(JIS), which by definition is 182mm x 257mm (7.17" x 10.12"). In Word 2007, I also could manually set the dimensions to 7.25 x 10.25, but when saved as a PDF using CutePDF, the page size was 7.17 x 10.12.

But Word will Save As a PDF. That's often what I upload to Lulu. There's no need to use some other tool.

Word 2007 doesn't have that option. There is an add-in from Microsoft that enables saving as PDF, but I never installed it because CutePDF has always worked for me, and it works with multiple applications, not just Word. And an FAQ at Lulu mentions it as a way to create the PDF file to be uploaded.

True, Lulu does recommend it, to use with anything that will not Save As a PDF. It could still be worth installing this though >>  https://www.lifewire.com/microsofts-free-save-pdf-add-in-3540128

I don't know what to suggest. I am using Word 2010, which came as part of Office 2010. And have no such problems with it.

Yeah, I've thought about upgrading, for multiple reasons, not just this issue. Maybe it's time.

Well, one 'problem' with MS is when they bring out new versions of Windows, previous MS applications often refuse to work with them! So I had little choice but upgrade! When I went to Vista even further back, I even had to buy a new printer!

...

I doubt it, or there would be no point in using Bleed. (Which I assume you are using to do double page spreads?)

No, no double page spreads. As noted above, I added the bleed area because the formatting instructions at Lulu say I should, since 0.125" will get trimmed off when the book is printed.

Ah, that's not really bleed then. 0.125 trimmed off is a lot! All the A5s I create remain as A5s, but at one time trimming could be a bit random. There's no real need to allow for trimming by increasing page size, just allow for it with your margins (and Gutter.) Currently I use Top .06", Bottom .05" (above and below Header and Footer) .5" both left and right, with a 0.20" Gutter. That's with around 280 pages, for many more I would increase the Gutter.

Having said all of the above, I think I've found a solution to my problem, and will describe it in a separate post.

I will read it in a moment!

HULSEY

I have Word 2007 and have published all my twenty-eight books with Lulu using it. I opt for A5 and set up page settings for paperback at 562 x 796. Paragraph settings: W-17.5 H-21 T2.54 B-2.54 L-2.54 R-1.9. I hav never encountered problems using this procedure.

Just Kevin

In Word 2010, you just select A5 (and it tells me the size in inches.) Does it not have that option in Word 2007? It is an ancient paper size after all.

BTW. Did you mean margin settings? I assume they are MMs?!

Paul_Lulu

Just Kevin said:

You only need Bleed if text or image goes across two facing pages. Is that what you want? It's to allow for what is bound, without 'stealing' any of the image or text. In theory that extra 0.125" should be an overlap area.

That's not precisely accurate. Bleed is always applied to all four sides of all pages. If you provide a file at size (6 x 9 for example) we have to add the bleed margin to the print file (6.25 x 9.25 is the final size). The bleed allows for trimming on all sides.

You are correct that, for a spread, the bleed is an overlap space. But on the other sides of the page, it's what allows for color or graphics to spread to the end of the page without any white paper showing.

Just Kevin

That's not precisely accurate. Bleed is always applied to all four sides of all pages. If you provide a file at size (6 x 9 for example) we have to add the bleed margin to the print file (6.25 x 9.25 is the final size). The bleed allows for trimming on all sides.

Why not just ask for those sizes then? I mostly use A5, and that's what size it is called in Create, it does not say + 1/4" all round. And I am sure that modern machines no longer cut 1/4" off all round! A total of 1/2" from side to side and top to bottom?

You are correct that, for a spread, the bleed is an overlap space. But on the other sides of the page, it's what allows for color or graphics to spread to the end of the page without any white paper showing.

Actually, we are both wrong on that point, apparently that is called Full Bleed. (partial or total  edge to edge printing.)

Just Kevin

Then again, what is more interesting is that although there's an A5 option when logged in to Create as UK, it is not the same size as the alternative option that's in its place (6 x 9) when logged in as the USA. US Trade is 15.24cm x 22.86cm. A5 is 14.81cm x 20.99cm according to Create. Does the Wizard realise that?

Paul_Lulu

Those are two different sizes - US Trade and A5. Why we had to have a different American size, I'm not really sure. It's just one of those things we do...

Anyway, the trim is 1/8" on each side (0.125") which results in a total add of 1/4" (0.25").

All printed files are printed as Full Bleed. I relatively sure that's an industry standard. We allow users to upload at the finished size (forcing us to add the bleed) because software (MS Word) makes it a challenge to create with Bleed. In a perfect world, everyone would always create files prepared for Bleed.

Just Kevin

There are random times when the Wizard says it has had to enlarge the size of my A5 files, and I have to wonder why, because it makes no difference to the actual book!

Just Kevin

But if people do add Bleed to allow for trimming, then the printers would add even more, would they not?

As far as I recall from Lulu's Knowledge Base Bleed does not seem to be mentioned as such unless one wants page contents right to the edges.

It gives advice to do with Full Bleed on how to prepare for double page spreads (add such and such to the bound edge and allow an overlap to each half of the image for those pages.)

If people do not want any of those options, then they don't need to allow anything for any type of Bleed. It's why I asked the OP if that's what was required.

Paul_Lulu

Just Kevin said:

But if people do add Bleed to allow for trimming, then the printers would add even more, would they not?

Nope. Our system reviews the file size to determine if it's ready to print or if we need to add the bleed margin. If you upload a PDF at the Full Bleed specifications, we won't adjust the size at all.

Just Kevin said:

As far as I recall from Lulu's Knowledge Base Bleed does not seem to be mentioned as such unless one wants page contents right to the edges.

It gives advice to do with Full Bleed on how to prepare for double page spreads (add such and such to the bound edge and allow an overlap to each half of the image for those pages.)

If people do not want any of those options, then they don't need to allow anything for any type of Bleed. It's why I asked the OP if that's what was required.

Ah, I misunderstood. In this you are correct. If there is no content running to the edge of the page, the file can be uploaded at the MS Word preset and we'll generate the PDF with Bleed.