Line Breaks vs Paragraph Returns

Hi there,
I've researched and can't find the answer to this one, so hoping someone will know. I'm printing a book of poetry, and the originals used paragraph returns for spacing between stanzas. It looks like line breaks are needed for an ePub book in order to maintain formatting, which makes sense. For a print book, does it matter if I leave the paragraph returns in, rather than going through all 200 pages and replacing them with line breaks?
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me with this!

Comments

  • Print books are very WYSIWYG.

    I assume you are saving the document as either .DOC or .PDF. In either of those cases, the page should appear exactly as it does when you print it at home.

  • If you're using a DOCX file, you can also reveal Non-Printing Characters (the little pilcrow icon in the ribbon) to see line breaks and paragraph returns. This is important to note, as our upload process will convert the file and apply all formatting to the print-ready PDF, regardless of how the text appears in Word.
  • classiclangclassiclang Author
    edited July 2018
    I agree about the importance for Word users (and users of other word processors) of knowing how to turn on the display of non-printing characters.  I used to teach Word classes and showed my students how they could not  understand what was going on in the document without seeing these marks.  Some of them really didn't like seeing these marks even though I stressed that they don't print -- I never understood this reaction.  Note that one can control which marks display (for instance, I find it distracting to see a dot for every space character); in Word, this is done in Options/Display.

    If you do need to remove all hard returns (and other formatting marks), this can be done with with search and replace.  In the search box, ^p finds hard (paragraph) returns; just leave the "replace with" field blank.
  • I am currently tinkering with finding easy ways around tricky formatting for ebooks. Poetry as well as song lyrics (in typical song format) can be problematic. I have started to convert mixed pages of text and images, as well as full pages of either, into single images. I do this by using Nitro which nicely converts PDFs into images; if your PDF is say 50 pages, it generates 50 separate images, without loss of quality. I have made an ebook of my first attempt and the result is very pleasing. Obviously, the option for the punter to tinker with the pages at their end is not the same as with text based pages, but nevertheless the pages can still be enlarged for viewing, or reduced if there was a need for this. This might not be for everyone, but it is an option if one gets stuck.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    I have been using Word for years, but am not sure what a Paragraph Break is! If I want a new line, I press the carriage return (Enter) and it gives me one. If I want an extra space between paragraphs I press it twice. That formatting still works in an ePub.
  • Thanks everyone!  I greatly appreciate the help.
  • Paul_Lulu said:
    If you're using a DOCX file, you can also reveal Non-Printing Characters (the little pilcrow icon in the ribbon) to see line breaks and paragraph returns. This is important to note, as our upload process will convert the file and apply all formatting to the print-ready PDF, regardless of how the text appears in Word.
    Just to be clear, Paul, once it's exported to a PDF to upload it to your site, the line breaks/paragraph returns are immaterial, as at that point I assume it is, as Skoob_ym kindly pointed out, basically WYSIWYG - correct?
  • Thanks for the suggestion, classiclang - unfortunately, I'm working in Pages (on a Mac), and that (admittedly very cool!) search option doesn't seem to work here. I'm definitely going to try it in Word though!
    I agree about the importance for Word users (and users of other word processors) of knowing how to turn on the display of non-printing characters.  I used to teach Word classes and showed my students how they could not  understand what was going on in the document without seeing these marks.  Some of them really didn't like seeing these marks even though I stressed that they don't print -- I never understood this reaction.  Note that one can control which marks display (for instance, I find it distracting to see a dot for every space character); in Word, this is done in Options/Display.

    If you do need to remove all hard returns (and other formatting marks), this can be done with with search and replace.  In the search box, ^p finds hard (paragraph) returns; just leave the "replace with" field blank.

  • I have been using Word for years, but am not sure what a Paragraph Break is! If I want a new line, I press the carriage return (Enter) and it gives me one. If I want an extra space between paragraphs I press it twice. That formatting still works in an ePub.
    Thanks, Just Kevin! Given that you're at 'Genius' status, this is good to know, and I very much appreciate it! When I was searching the knowledge base here on Lulu, I found this: http://connect.lulu.com/en/discussion/206711/epub-conversion-style-based-formatting which stated that "Our converter will automatically strip direct formatting of extra spaces (manual indents and manually entered paragraph spacing) from your document during conversion." That's what got me concerned about needing to replace all of the manually entered paragraph returns. 
  • Just to be clear, Paul, once it's exported to a PDF to upload it to your site, the line breaks/paragraph returns are immaterial, as at that point I assume it is, as Skoob_ym kindly pointed out, basically WYSIWYG - correct?
    Yes, but in creating the PDF, all of those breaks will be applied. This happens most often, in my experience, with page/section breaks. Word might show a page break alongside a section break, moving content to the following page, but when creating the PDF, you might see a blank page due to the application of both the page and section breaks.

    Not something that happens consistently, but worth noting and reviewing once the PDF is created to make sure all the formatting is in place.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    Thanks, Just Kevin! Given that you're at 'Genius' status, this is good to know, and I very much appreciate it! When I was searching the knowledge base here on Lulu, I found this: http://connect.lulu.com/en/discussion/206711/epub-conversion-style-based-formatting which stated that "Our converter will automatically strip direct formatting of extra spaces (manual indents and manually entered paragraph spacing) from your document during conversion." That's what got me concerned about needing to replace all of the manually entered paragraph returns. 

    Well, when I made that reply to you, I looked at my Lulu created ePubs and the spaces are indeed still there, so I am not sure what it is stripping. Although multiple Returns used to create a 'new page' will indeed cause problems.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    Yes, but in creating the PDF, all of those breaks will be applied. This happens most often, in my experience, with page/section breaks. Word might show a page break alongside a section break, moving content to the following page, but when creating the PDF, you might see a blank page due to the application of both the page and section breaks.

    Not something that happens consistently, but worth noting and reviewing once the PDF is created to make sure all the formatting is in place.

    It is possible to not notice a blank page because it can actually be hidden between Page Breaks or New Sections, or a combination, that are applied on the same line.
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