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(Question) About adult content

I run a Patreon where I regularly write Erotica/adult stories and novels. I recently had the idea to work with an artist who would provide art for certain adult scenes in a new novel and I was hoping I could include those pictures inserted into the book where they are appropriate among the pages. The pictures would of course be depicting the sexual acts of the content being described and would be explicit. For clarification, this wouldn't be like a comic, just a novel with pictures among the pages.

I read the terms and service for Lulu regarding what could be considered pornographic content but because it didn't go into specifics it made me wonder what would and wouldn't be allowed. For example, would I be allowed to have this kind of a novel on Lulu? Could I possibly have it privately and use Lulu as a way of just printing copies instead of having the novel on the market? Any and all clarification would be greatly appreciated. 
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Comments

  • Hi Johnthicc,

    As stated in our terms and conditions in Appendix A, "Pornography- X-rated text, photographs and movies, home porn, hard-core material that depict graphic sexual acts, and amateur porn are not permitted."

    If your content is reported and violates our terms and conditions, it could be removed from being sold.

  • Em_PressEm_Press Professor
    There isan author here, Mr Blue something, who has been publishing gay erotica for years. And they were public, until he removed his signature. Then I do not know their status.

    You could probably make them private and order copies for yourself. 

    Do a search on lulu for erotica. You will find tons of it. Some even with illustrations. 
     A citizen of the world.

  • Em_PressEm_Press Professor
    edited June 18
    There are pages and pages of erotica, with pictures. Naked behinds everywhere. Your little book should be okay even if public.

    https://www.lulu.com/shop/search.ep?contributorId=1368322



     A citizen of the world.

  • To Taylor_Lulu,

    I have read that part of the TaC but it still doesn't answer my questions. Mainly, what if I simply wanted to create this content but had it only for myself to buy copies/had the project private? Would that be allowed? Such that if I wanted to give copies away or sell them through myself. 

    Also, I'm curious as to how erotica avoids violating what is stated in Appendix A as there is quite a lot of it for sale. 
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    This has been covered a lot in the forum already. But I would say that the publication in question is way above 'Erotica.'

    " The pictures would of course be depicting the sexual acts of the content being described and would be explicit."

    That is porn, and does contravene Lulu's ToCs. But it could be set on Private.

  • Em_PressEm_Press Professor
    John, I already answered both your questions. Why ask again? I even provided a link.

    Just do it. Make a private project, order your copies. And if it's erotica and nothing illegal, make it public. Just like all the other thousand erotica books on lulu. Some of which I have read. Such as Into the Woods. Super hard core stuff and it's been on Lulu for years.
     A citizen of the world.

  • Em_PressEm_Press Professor
    PS. Go look at the previews of some of these books.
     A citizen of the world.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    Into the Woods has a nice cover. I have just read the Preview. There's quite a bit of innuendo to do with the genital areas (certain words not being used in other words!) which makes it Erotica, but if the OP's book has " The pictures would of course be depicting the sexual acts of the content being described and would be explicit" then that really is porn. In other words, it does not sound like 'tits & bums' but dicks and ... It really does need to be set to Private.
  • Em_PressEm_Press Professor
    So, Kevin, did I mention it so we could get that author's book censored? Or to help the previous poster? How 'bout we lay off the persecution?
     A citizen of the world.

  • Kevin seems to be more understanding about what the book would entail. I'm not concerned about how hardcore the text is, but the commissioned pictures within the book. There's a big difference between artistic nudity that a lot of "errotica" books have here on Lulu and then there's actual artistic depictions of the sexual acts themselves and even bodily fluids which I haven't seen yet. 

    But all of that is mute if it is perfectly okay for me to have this project as private and I can order the books just for myself. I just don't know how automated the printing process is for Lulu and I'd hate to put money and effort towards a project like this and have a Lulu employee open one of my books, see a pic, and then report it to the point that I can't have it on Lulu at all. It's better to be safer, right? 
  • Allow me to clarify this a little. Anything our internal review team deems "pornographic" we reserve the right to remove as we see fit. That's a subjective decision, so it may not always fit with another's definition of pornographic.

    Pictures depicting sex and sexual acts would fall within our definition of pornographic, so making it public would get your account banned and your books removed. Just printing them privately circumvents this, but be warned that even a book in private access is subject to our terms and conditions, so if we became aware of the contents it could still be reviewed and removed by our QC team.

    Bottom line: I would very much advise not putting a book with images of the nature you're suggesting on our bookstore.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    So, Kevin, did I mention it so we could get that author's book censored?

    Why would it be censored? It's not porn.

     Or to help the previous poster? How 'bout we lay off the persecution?

    Pardon?!

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    Kevin seems to be more understanding about what the book would entail. I'm not concerned about how hardcore the text is, but the commissioned pictures within the book. There's a big difference between artistic nudity that a lot of "errotica" books have here on Lulu and then there's actual artistic depictions of the sexual acts themselves and even bodily fluids which I haven't seen yet. 

    There's no real difference if it's images or text. TOC rules will still apply.

    But all of that is mute if it is perfectly okay for me to have this project as private and I can order the books just for myself.

    If only you can see your Storefront and only you can order from it. There should be no objections. However, if anyone who buys it just to see how legal the content is, they can still report it to Lulu and Lulu will possibly remove it.

     I just don't know how automated the printing process is for Lulu

    Very automated because they do not seem to notice QC issues.

     and I'd hate to put money and effort towards a project like this and have a Lulu employee open one of my books, see a pic, and then report it to the point that I can't have it on Lulu at all.

    Lulu do not actually print the books, and one would assume that some one somewhere prints porn or it would not exist, but it's up to the ethics of the printing house.

     It's better to be safer, right?

    Indeed, but have you not asked before in other threads? 

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    This is literally the bottom line, though >>> "Bottom line: I would very much advise not putting a book with images of the nature you're suggesting on our bookstore."
  • Skoob_ymSkoob_ym Teacher
    This is literally the bottom line, though >>> "Bottom line: I would very much advise not putting a book with images of the nature you're suggesting on our bookstore."
    Operative word being "bookstore."
  • Joe_Bondi_BeachJoe_Bondi_Beach San Francisco Bay Area Creator
    Em_Press said:
    PS. Go look at the previews of some of these books.
    Not to mention the blurbs for some of them. We don't need to get to the lousy formatting quite suited to the execrable writing itself.
  • I think what they are trying to say is the sort of thing you want I is not a good idea for you to keep privately or publicly. Romance writers get away with describing such things. But they never include pictures. Try being descriptive instead of showing off photos. Might work better for you. Especially n Romance and erotica genres. might be more along the lines of what you want to get your point across. There are also documentaries on YouTube from the BBC that might be helpful to you. But you must be an adult to view some of them. So be aware of that. Could also do some exploration and see if you can do a book documentary on your topic, with age restrictions. Do some research on that to see what you get. Though do not get your hopes up that such a thing even exists. Hope this is useful. If I have made some sort of error, please feel free to take down my post.
  • One or two things puzzle me about the terms of use: 
    "As stated in our terms and conditions in Appendix A, "Pornography, X-rated text, photographs and movies, home porn, hard-core material that depict graphic sexual acts, and amateur porn are not permitted."

    What is "X-rated"? That is, who or what is the body that assigns this rating to a book? According to the terms, this X-rating must have been applied to the text (or interior photos) of a book before it is submitted to Lulu...so how does that happen? If a book clearly has, say, "R-rated" displayed on its cover, will Lulu let it pass?
    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • One or two things puzzle me about the terms of use: 
    "As stated in our terms and conditions in Appendix A, "Pornography, X-rated text, photographs and movies, home porn, hard-core material that depict graphic sexual acts, and amateur porn are not permitted."

    What is "X-rated"? That is, who or what is the body that assigns this rating to a book? According to the terms, this X-rating must have been applied to the text (or interior photos) of a book before it is submitted to Lulu...so how does that happen? If a book clearly has, say, "R-rated" displayed on its cover, will Lulu let it pass?
    The "X-rated" here applies to any content (text, image, video) that might appear. It's just a broad term, which possibly could have been worded more clearly.
  • Possibly.
    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    One or two things puzzle me about the terms of use: 
    "As stated in our terms and conditions in Appendix A, "Pornography, X-rated text, photographs and movies, home porn, hard-core material that depict graphic sexual acts, and amateur porn are not permitted."

    Well, we have said before, that is all a bit vague, because it allows people to make their own mind up what they think is or is not, porn. Not everyone has the same definition. Wiki spends 1000s of words trying to say what it is, not to mention that every country has it's own laws.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography

    What is "X-rated"? That is, who or what is the body that assigns this rating to a book? According to the terms, this X-rating must have been applied to the text (or interior photos) of a book before it is submitted to Lulu...so how does that happen? If a book clearly has, say, "R-rated" displayed on its cover, will Lulu let it pass?

    Surely it's publishers who decide what to publish, and on Lulu that is us. It also has to be assumed that it's up to retailers to decide what to sell. The problem arises with the latter when they are auto-piped over to many other sites by Lulu's software, sites that may have different ideas about what they want to sell. But I do not think the books are examined, I think the sites rely on the Report This button, and if no one clicks them, then the book remains on sale.

    This is what you find on Amazon using X-rated as the search >>

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/x-rated-Books/s?page=1&rh=n:266239,k:x- rated

    Here is one, complete with Preview   https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amazing-Sex-Stories-Erotic-X-RATED-ebook/dp/B07KJDW5CY/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1543713799&sr=1-4&keywords=x-+rated

    Note that I am not logged in, so Amazon have no idea of my age. At the top it strangely says this >> Excluding adult items !!

    This is in Erotica on Amazon (note I am still not logged in)  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tease-Club-Story-Penny-Wylder-ebook/dp/B071KFL7KS/ref=sr_1_11?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1543714438&sr=1-11&keywords=erotica

    Would Lulu even allow that cover?


  • I think that we may be trying to define things that are best left slightly vague. I understand that there are certain rules in the film industry, to the effect that showing one body part for x number of seconds is an R-rating, and for x+1 seconds is X-rated, or that showing a different body part entirely is an X-rating, however briefly, and so forth. But I get the impression -- though I could be mistaken -- that being that precise leaves no room for exceptions, and that sometimes exceptions may be in order.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    Some get around it by calling it 'art', but very often with films they are rated by a jury sat down watching them all.
  • LarikaLarika Bibliophile
    edited December 4
    of course.  some words can be hurtful.
  • LarikaLarika Bibliophile
    edited December 4
    Em_Press "Just do it. Make a private project, order your copies. And if it's erotica and nothing illegal, make it public. Just like all the other thousand erotica books on lulu. Some of which I have read. Such as Into the Woods. Super hard core stuff and it's been on Lulu for years."
        Which one? 

    http://www.lulu.com/shop/unknown-author/black-book-erotica-in-the-woods/paperback/product-15983831.html


    http://www.lulu.com/shop/the-students-of-belvue-school/into-the-woods/paperback/product-16210673.html

    Maybe I'll get the book by children! More to my taste! By mentioning the book, even if it is to "help the previous poster," people will go to the book Em. I don't think Kevin was trying to persecute the writer. He just agreed with what Paul had said-

     Paul_Lulu Admin  Pictures depicting sex and sexual acts would fall within our definition of pornographic, so making it public would get your account banned and your books removed. Just printing them privately circumvents this, but be warned that even a book in private access is subject to our terms and conditions, so if we became aware of the contents it could still be reviewed and removed by our QC team. 

    Bottom line: I would very much advise not putting a book with images of the nature you're suggesting on our bookstore. 

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    I have just looked at that first link, and the story would not be amiss in the pages of Playboy ... and it's interesting that it's not credited to a name. I can also view it without logging in to Lulu.
  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius
    The first link pasted by larika I mean
  • LarikaLarika Bibliophile

    I understood some of the rap but i really couldn't understand all the interesting "words" so I'm glad you posted a link to the lyrics. Would have been better recited as a poem by a lady dressed in a twinset and pleated skirt. :)


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