Literary Ugenics

Everyone is talking about professional v.s. hobbyist and who should be allowed to sell their work for what amount. First Amendment rights keeps people like Ron Miller from Nazi Book Rallying Regime, or some third party entity saying who and what can be published and who and what should not. My English is not so poor that my book is unreadable like the poor guy who everybody accuses of being from another country, (And why should it matter even if he was?) are trying to take over the writing community at large?

 

Who's to say your chair is better than mine? All of these people who have decided that as their regime should try to blacklist others in an attack on Indie Authors so that they can claim their books and only their books should be allowed to be charged full price for. I mean, seriously. Should a person have to check a box stating that, "My work is so intangible that I shouldn't be allowed to charge much for a story that's been something to be proud of. These extremist's aren't even authors in most cases and wouldn't know how to make a story last more than a few misguided chapters.

 

Thus, leaving them and their credibility up to fashused sects that embed themselves in agreement in discounting, and falsifying what what must be considered acceptable. And what's with the whole editorial deal? Why do they know so much more about your story than you do? If they're so great, then why aren't they writing best sellers all by themselves? The reason, "These people couldn't write their way out of a 20,000 word essay max without running out of steam.

 

They, need to after convincing the author they need to lots of money to retell your story in a manner that you probably aren't going to appreciate. Yet you pay them anyway. Before computerized word processors people may've needed a second glance but today? They just re-arranged a few things here and there, run it through the windows word auto check, combine some sentences and call it a day stating that they're something special and without their official tag of approval things won't go so well. Had anyone else written these books most people would be crawling all over it.

Comments

  • oncewasoncewas Librarian

    My view is that anyone can publish whatever they like. I totally understand what Ron is saying but I reject it on the grounds that it is undemocratic. After all, people who cannot paint very well still try to sell their paintings. People who would put a cats' choir to shame still try to make a living out of singing. His advice is best received by the 1 % of writers who have any hope of selling more than 1000 copies of their book.

     

    All I am saying is don't expect to sell very well. The link you provided to the review of your book confirmed the opinion I had already formed: your work, in its current format, is unreadable.

     

    You may think your sentence structure is your unique style but most other people would find it alarming because, quite frankly, it is. You can't just terminate a sentence whenever you get bored with it. Well, you can but not many people are going to want to read such a book. Each sentence, paragraph and chapter of a book has a job to do and that job isn't to make the reader scratch his head.

     

    Keep writing the way you do if it makes you happy and if satisfies your need for self expression. Just don't expect the dollars to roll in any time soon.

     

    If you are truly happy with the status quo, and you are not just being bombastic, then anything we can say is just water off a duck's back.

  • you mean "DUCK" OFF A WADDERS BACK" for all the cash he has rolling in due to his well pronounced mirror image of the consamit writer here on planet earth. 

  • Bolter, it's certainly okay to say that you don't care what other people think.

     

    It just makes it difficult to also say, "Please buy my book."

     

    For what it's worth.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    Everyone is talking about professional v.s. hobbyist and who should be allowed to sell their work for what amount. First Amendment rights keeps people like Ron Miller from Nazi Book Rallying Regime,

     

    Do you mean Ron's claim that published books should have decent English, be laid out like a 'real' book and have decent covers? Especially when one is expecting people to pay money for it? Shame on Ron ...

     

    or some third party entity saying who and what can be published and who and what should not.

     

    Do you mean getting advice not to insult the world of publishing by churning out rubbish? Yes. Rubbish. Some self-publishers have never even opened a book nevermind read one.

     

    My English is not so poor that my book is unreadable like the poor guy who everybody accuses of being from another country, (And why should it matter even if he was?) are trying to take over the writing community at large?

     

    Open a book published by a major publishing house. Read it. What do you see? Why should a buyer not get that in all published books? Imagine if people built cars with the "it will do" attitude. Asking people who's level of English seems poor is not an accusation. Usually it leads to the advice that they should get a translator or an editor.

     

    Who's to say your chair is better than mine?

     

    The people who sit in it who you are expecting to pay money for it? There's no doubt whatsoever that some are better than others, but if they are on sale in stores then even the worse ones are usually good.

     

    All of these people who have decided that as their regime should try to blacklist others in an attack on Indie Authors so that they can claim their books and only their books should be allowed to be charged full price for.

     

    What on earth are you on about? And what is "full price"? Are you mixing that up with 'Competitive' price?

     

    I mean, seriously. Should a person have to check a box stating that, "My work is so intangible that I shouldn't be allowed to charge much for a story that's been something to be proud of.

     

    There's no need. Most have Previews. But indeed, if a book is unreadable then money should not be charged for it. Simple and just plain sense.

     

    These extremist's aren't even authors in most cases and wouldn't know how to make a story last more than a few misguided chapters.

     

    Are you on about this forum or are you ranting about some other place? Most of the regular contributors here are indeed authors.

     

    Thus, leaving them and their credibility up to fashused sects that embed themselves in agreement in discounting, and falsifying what what must be considered acceptable. 

     

    I think you need to wander off and have a look at the Spotlights of those you are accusing and insulting. Even click on the banners most have at the bottom of their postings.

     

    And what's with the whole editorial deal? Why do they know so much more about your story than you do?

     

    Erm, because we have seen them? The story is often not the problem. The problem often is they are hard or impossible to read.

     

    If they're so great, then why aren't they writing best sellers all by themselves? The reason,

     

    Do you know how many books are published a week by even the major publishing houses that rarely get in to the best seller lists? And that's with the marketing clout of being able to chuck a lot of money at promoting them.

     

    "These people couldn't write their way out of a 20,000 word essay max without running out of steam.

     

    Which people? Would you like to name names?

     

    They, need to after convincing the author they need to lots of money to retell your story in a manner that you probably aren't going to appreciate.

     

    Huh? Who do? As far as I know none of the regulars who reply in the forums offer that service, they just suggest people should find an editor. That's not exactly what editors do anyway.

     

    Yet you pay them anyway.

     

    No one forces them to pay anyone. Why not accuse Lulu of offering paid for Services while you are at it? Are they bad for doing so?

     

    Before computerized word processors people may've needed a second glance but today?

     

    That statement only proves that you know nothing about it.

     

    They just re-arranged a few things here and there, run it through the windows word auto check, combine some sentences and call it a day stating that they're something special and without their official tag of approval things won't go so well.

     

    I agree that there are some people on the internet who do just that, but we warn people to be aware of them.

     

    Had anyone else written these books most people would be crawling all over it.

     

    Huh?

     

    BTW. You need to address the spelling mistakes on your site. One even hits people in the face because it's on a huge banner. And do you pay to have that copyrighted tune playing?

  • First of all Kevin, "There's nothing wrong with my book." But you just keep your eyes closed and keep telling yourself that there is because as far as I'm concerned you and I are on equal terms. I have just has many rights to print whatever it is that want and charge whatever it is that I want without any permission from you.

     

    I can't understand what your problem is. I mean, "Maybe your dyslexia or something" I don't know but blacklisting authors will eventually have to be reckoned with because freelance Indie writers aren't going anywhere nor are the grammar, phonetic, and literary mistakes as you call them evolve into an easily seen art form you will be forced one day to recognize that stifling artistic ability and claiming redemption all of your own is quite egotistical.

     

    Considering that what is precious to one is rubbish to you. That sword cuts both ways my friend and I don't spectacularly care for anything that pertains to you either. You can't suppress everyone and the ones you can actually don't have to pay any attention to anything that you call rubbish. My God man, who are you to say? Just who do you think you are anyway?

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    Oh brother! Where to start? (I mean other than to mention that the word is spelled "eugenics")
    Bolter1224 wrote:

    Everyone is talking about professional v.s. hobbyist and who should be allowed to sell their work for what amount.

     

    Do you bother to read posts or do you just prefer to fly off the handle? No one, not one single person, has even remotely suggested anyone not be allowed to sell their work for whatever amount they want. 

     

    First Amendment rights keeps people like Ron Miller from Nazi Book Rallying Regime, or some third party entity saying who and what can be published and who and what should not.

     

    You don't understand the Bill of Rights. It has only to do with what the government can and cannot do. If Lulu, for instance, decided to censor one of your books it would not be violation of your First Amendment rights because the First Amendment doesn't apply to individuals or corporations.

     

    Besides, wherever did I say that you or anyone else should be prevented from publishing whatever you like?

     

    My English is not so poor that my book is unreadable like the poor guy who everybody accuses of being from another country, (And why should it matter even if he was?) are trying to take over the writing community at large?

     

    Frankly, I would debate the first part of that last statement.

     

    Who's to say your chair is better than mine?

     

    The person who sits in it and it falls apart? Are you honestly suggesting that there are no standards of quality for anything?

     

    All of these people who have decided that as their regime should try to blacklist others in an attack on Indie Authors so that they can claim their books and only their books should be allowed to be charged full price for.

     

    Again, where did anyone say anything about blacklisting? Where did anyone ever say that only their books should be purchased and read?

     

    I mean, seriously. Should a person have to check a box stating that, "My work is so intangible that I shouldn't be allowed to charge much for a story that's been something to be proud of.

     

    Not at all. All anyone is saying is that an author has a responsibility to their readers and not just themselves.

     

    These extremist's aren't even authors in most cases and wouldn't know how to make a story last more than a few misguided chapters.

     

    Thus, leaving them and their credibility up to fashused sects that embed themselves in agreement in discounting, and falsifying what what must be considered acceptable. And what's with the whole editorial deal? Why do they know so much more about your story than you do? If they're so great, then why aren't they writing best sellers all by themselves? The reason, "These people couldn't write their way out of a 20,000 word essay max without running out of steam.

     

    Ah, the old "if they are so good at editing, why aren't they writing great books?" argument. Well, aside from the fact that many editors are, in fact, successful authors, being a good editor is a real specialty that requires a special talent of its own. Not all editors are even interested in writing their own books...just as many---if not most---authors are either incapable or uninterested in becoming editors.

     

    They, need to after convincing the author they need to lots of money to retell your story in a manner that you probably aren't going to appreciate. Yet you pay them anyway. Before computerized word processors people may've needed a second glance but today? They just re-arranged a few things here and there, run it through the windows word auto check, combine some sentences and call it a day stating that they're something special and without their official tag of approval things won't go so well. Had anyone else written these books most people would be crawling all over it.

     

    Oh dear. You are one of those people who confuse editing with SpellCheck...


     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    danielblue wrote:

    My view is that anyone can publish whatever they like. I totally understand what Ron is saying but I reject it on the grounds that it is undemocratic. After all, people who cannot paint very well still try to sell their paintings. People who would put a cats' choir to shame still try to make a living out of singing. His advice is best received by the 1 % of writers who have any hope of selling more than 1000 copies of their book.

     

    All I am saying is don't expect to sell very well. The link you provided to the review of your book confirmed the opinion I had already formed: your work, in its current format, is unreadable.

     

    You may think your sentence structure is your unique style but most other people would find it alarming because, quite frankly, it is. You can't just terminate a sentence whenever you get bored with it. Well, you can but not many people are going to want to read such a book. Each sentence, paragraph and chapter of a book has a job to do and that job isn't to make the reader scratch his head.

     

    Keep writing the way you do if it makes you happy and if satisfies your need for self expression. Just don't expect the dollars to roll in any time soon.

     

    If you are truly happy with the status quo, and you are not just being bombastic, then anything we can say is just water off a duck's back.

    You hit my point right on the head. Anyone is free to create whatever they like and charge whatever they like for it. No one, least of all me, is suggesting otherwise. All I have been saying all along is that an author or artist who is not in the game for pure self-aggrandizement should try their very best to offer the best product possible if they are going to charge people money for it. This means studying, listening to critics, getting advice and working hard at your craft. 

     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    kevinlomas wrote:

     

    These extremist's aren't even authors in most cases and wouldn't know how to make a story last more than a few misguided chapters.

     

    Are you on about this forum or are you ranting about some other place? Most of the regular contributors here are indeed authors.

     

    Thus, leaving them and their credibility up to fashused sects that embed themselves in agreement in discounting, and falsifying what what must be considered acceptable. 

     

    I think you need to wander off and have a look at the Spotlights of those you are accusing and insulting. Even click on the banners most have at the bottom of their postings.

     

    I always hate having to point this sort of thing out, but if Bolter is indeed suggesting that I'm not speaking from some little experience, I will direct him here. My most recent traditionally published book is here.

     

    That being said, I want to emphasize that every single one of my 50-odd traditionally published books have run the editorial gauntlet...and not one of them hasn't been better for it. I have been writing professionally for more than 40 years and even though I think I turn in a good, clean, professional-looking MS every time, my editors invariably find ways to improve them...to say nothing of the indefatigible copy-editors who ferret out every misspelled word and misplaced comma. If my writing has improved over the years (and I like to think it has), it is entirely due to the hard work and diligence of my editors (a good editor is the best friend an author can have!) and the fact that I pay very close attention to their comments and advice.

     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    Bolter1224 wrote:

    First of all Kevin, "There's nothing wrong with my book." But you just keep your eyes closed and keep telling yourself that there is because as far as I'm concerned you and I are on equal terms. I have just has many rights to print whatever it is that want and charge whatever it is that I want without any permission from you.

     

    Nor from me. Neither I nor Kevin have ever suggested that you can't charge whatever you like for your book. The question is, should you. Anyone can charge whatever they like for something they have created...but value lies in more than the eye of the creator. If a book is shoddy and badly written and an author charges as much for it as a book that was carefully written and edited, then they are not offering value for the money. That is the only point I've been trying to make.

     

    I can't understand what your problem is. I mean, "Maybe your dyslexia or something" I don't know but blacklisting authors will eventually have to be reckoned with because freelance Indie writers aren't going anywhere nor are the grammar, phonetic, and literary mistakes as you call them evolve into an easily seen art form you will be forced one day to recognize that stifling artistic ability and claiming redemption all of your own is quite egotistical.

     

    God forbid that bad grammar, spelling and punctuation should ever become a recognized art form! But, seeing as how "independent" authors have been self-publishing for centuries, it would seem that any fears of this happening are probably groundless.

     

    Considering that what is precious to one is rubbish to you.

     

    This is just an old, time-worn excuse usually reserved for those to whom craftsmanship is too much trouble.

     

    That sword cuts both ways my friend and I don't spectacularly care for anything that pertains to you either. You can't suppress everyone and the ones you can actually don't have to pay any attention to anything that you call rubbish. My God man, who are you to say? Just who do you think you are anyway?

     

    Who is suppressing anyone? No one I'm aware of.

     


     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Pointis Ron. Your no better than the rest of us, and until you get used that fact you will forever remain in an egotistical fog. You have no right claiming one-up-man's-ship on anyone. And again, I reiderate, because your fatal flaw is,  "There's nothing wrong with the book!"

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    Bolter1224 wrote:

    Pointis Ron. Your no better than the rest of us, and until you get used that fact you will forever remain in an egotistical fog. You have no right claiming one-up-man's-ship on anyone. And again, I reiderate, because your fatal flaw is,  "There's nothing wrong with the book!"


    I'm going to have to give up on this discussion...if for no other reason than I'm getting a little weary of you quoting things I never said. 

     

    Did I ever say my work was better than anyone else's or that there was never anything wrong with my books? No...in fact, I have said exactly the opposite! In fact, I thought I was being pretty explicit when I explained in my last post that no matter how polished I thought my manuscripts were, they always benefitted from the input of the talented and knowledgeable editors I have worked with. That, and paying attention to editors, critics and my fellow authors, is what has contributed to a large degree to any success my books may have had.

     

    Any author who refuses to run their books through such a rigorous gauntlet absolutely has no right to accuse anyone else of saying "there is nothing wrong with my book." Any author who thinks they don't need the advice or help of an editor or their fellow authors certainly is in no position to accuse anyone else of being delusional about the quality of their work.

     

    Nor have I ever claimed one-upsmanship or that my work is better than anyone else's....goodness knows there are much better writers than me...but by the same token there is much I can point to with some justifiable pride. For instance: I have had several books that have been multiple Book-of-the-Month Club main selections, as well as selections of the Quality Paperback Book Club, Science Book Club and Astronomy Book Club. One of my books alone (The Grand Tour) has gone through three editions and has 240,000 copies in print.

     

    Several of my books have also received numerous commendations and awards, including a Hugo Award; the Award of Excellence in Science Writing from American Institute of PhysicsTen Best Books of the Year from the Astronomical Society of the Pacific (twice); Outstanding Science Trade Book, National Science Teachers Assoc./Children's Book Council; New York Public Library Books for the Teen Age; IAF Manuscript Award; Booklist Editor's AwardNew York Public Library Books for the Teen Age; Children's Book Committee at Bank Street College Best Children's Book of the YearNational Science Teachers Association (NSTA) / Children's Book Council (CBC) Outstanding Science Trade BooksVOYA Nonfiction Honor List (twice)Writer's League of Texas Violet Crown Award; SSLI (Society of School Librarians International) Book Award; NSTA/CBC Outstanding Science Trade Books; Junior Library Guild Selection; nominee for Library of Virginia Literary Award for Non-Fiction; and Best Children's Books of the Year, Children’s Book Committee at the Bank Street College of Education.


     

    I don't point out all of this to demonstrate that I am better than anyone else (though I am sure you will think so) but only to show you that I have the experience to back up the things I am asserting.

     

    Writing, whether as a professional or an amateur, is all about craftsmanship. And any good craftsman is willing---indeed, anxious---to learn from others, especially those with any special knowledge or experience. In the case of writers, this includes fellow authors, editors and critics. I have always paid close attention to all three...though perhaps most seriously to the editors. After all, they represent the publishers who have paid me for my book. I don't always agree with them---and contrary to what many people think, I am under no obligation to make any changes or corrections they ask for---but I always take them seriously and never dismiss their suggestions out of hand. I have tried very hard to learn from each experience so while I make mistakes on every book, I hope they are new ones and not just old mistakes I am repeating because I failed to learn from the past. Even after some fifty books, each new one is a new learning experience.


    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Thats the most humble thing I think I've ever heard from you. Thank you fory your time and allowing me a decent remark. I would much rather be friends but my book is finished to the best of my ability. You must understand, I have not the funds nor the dersire to pay the outragous amount of money to make a book acceptible. through the 400 dollar cover the 600 dollar editor, numerous pdf and word pricessing subscriptions, learning to format everything all on my own.

     

    Please remember, my project may be raw but it is all of my own making. Mistakes have been made but I can tell you that a craftsman may have set you down and tought him a trade but for me its been School of Hard Knocks. Please do realize, I've poored my heart and soul into this book and after puchasing copies of my own in hopes of a formal book signing I'm probably vested in 3 or 4 years worth of blood sweat and tears not to mention the thousands I've already spent on custom covers and editors. So,all I'm asking is that you cut me a litlle slack.

     

    My books are published in PDF, E-PUB, MOBI, AND KINDLE. Publishing all of these formats through reputable companies is a testiment to my own ability to write, create, format, and market a story that is close to home and dear to my heart. I'm sorry you don't like it but I can tell you there is nothing in this world that I like better.

     

    Free E-PUB version of The Time Walkers Unablriddged. For what its worth.

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    Bolter1224 wrote:

    Thats the most humble thing I think I've ever heard from you. Thank you fory your time and allowing me a decent remark. I would much rather be friends but my book is finished to the best of my ability. You must understand, I have not the funds nor the dersire to pay the outragous amount of money to make a book acceptible. through the 400 dollar cover the 600 dollar editor, numerous pdf and word pricessing subscriptions, learning to format everything all on my own.

     

    Please remember, my project may be raw but it is all of my own making. Mistakes have been made but I can tell you that a craftsman may have set you down and tought him a trade but for me its been School of Hard Knocks. Please do realize, I've poored my heart and soul into this book and after puchasing copies of my own in hopes of a formal book signing I'm probably vested in 3 or 4 years worth of blood sweat and tears not to mention the thousands I've already spent on custom covers and editors. So,all I'm asking is that you cut me a litlle slack.

     

    My books are published in PDF, E-PUB, MOBI, AND KINDLE. Publishing all of these formats through reputable companies is a testiment to my own ability to write, create, format, and market a story that is close to home and dear to my heart. I'm sorry you don't like it but I can tell you there is nothing in this world that I like better.

     

    Free E-PUB version of The Time Walkers Unablriddged. For what its worth.


    I appreciate your honesty and forthrightness...but I cannot be entirely sympathetic.

     

    The fact that you have self-published your books might be a testament to your ability to write, create, format and market a story...but it really says nothing toward any efforts you may have made toward the quality of what you have published...which has really been the issue of this thread.

     

    Now don't get me wrong...I have never, even once, said that I don't like your books. Let's make that clear right now. But, getting back to the original issues, you are asking me and all of your potential readers to "cut you some slack" because you have not been able to afford proper editing, etc. Now I have to ask you: why should anyone do that?

     

    Let's say a potential book buyer has a choice between two books. The books are being offered for the same price, but one has been carefully edited, copy-edited, proofread and formatted. As for the other, the author is asking the buyer to overlook the fact that he hasn't been able to have his book made "acceptible"...but that it should be purchased anyway because he has put so many years into it. Which book would you buy?

    When someone decides to be a self-publisher, they undertake to assume all the roles of a publisher...including those of any traditional publisher. This means that they need to either become an experienced editor, copy editor, proofreader, book designer, book marketer, etc....or hire people to fill those roles. If the self-publisher cannot do these things is it really fair---and even honest---to beg forgiveness from someone who they are expecting to give them as much money for their book as they would, say, Simon & Shuster? Of course not.

     

    In short, why should anyone "give you a little slack" when they can spend the same money elsewhere and get a book of professional quality? I know you have poured heart and soul into your books----but so does every author. This does not make you special and it does not garner you any special consideration. This is a hard fact that too many self-published authors have run up against...but there you are.

     

    You say that "Mistakes have been made but I can tell you that a craftsman may have set you down and tought him a trade but for me its been School of Hard Knocks..." Well, I what I can tell you is that no one sat down and taught me anything. I thought I made that clear. What I did was to listen to those who had experience and knowledge and learned from them. I did not take their criticism personally...I took it in the spirit in which it was intended---which was to make me a better writer. And it has taken me far more years to do this than you have invested in your own writing, I am sure.

     

    You can take advantage of that same experience here. You can listen to the advice and criticism of people who know what they are talking about...or you can defensive and think that everything is a personal attack against you.

     

    Take your choice.

     

     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Didn't you read the thread? The book has been edited by Annie Cosby autohr of Learning to Swim as an example. I paid a pretty penney to have the book edited by her. $600 dollars in fact. So, why do you keep saying that it hasn't been edited?

     

    Here's a copy of this document for your records:

     

     

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    First of all Kevin, "There's nothing wrong with my book."

     

    Why the quotation marks?

     

    But you just keep your eyes closed and keep telling yourself that there is because as far as I'm concerned you and I are on equal terms. I have just has many rights to print whatever it is that want and charge whatever it is that I want without any permission from you.

     

    Well, this time I have said nothing about your books. I do recall many people in the forum telling you your theory about pyramids is cod-science, That was you was it not? but that was years ago. It was your website that I said needed a serious editing.

     

    I can't understand what your problem is. I mean, "Maybe your dyslexia or something"

     

    Huh? Are you replying to me? I never said that.

     

    I don't know but blacklisting authors will eventually have to be reckoned

     

    Erm, who is blacklisting people? How is that even possible with self-published books? Do you know what the term means?

     

     with because freelance Indie writers aren't going anywhere nor are the grammar, phonetic, and literary mistakes as you call them evolve into an easily seen art form you will be forced one day to recognize that stifling artistic ability and claiming redemption all of your own is quite egotistical.

     

    No offence, but don't be so stupid. And I do not call them literary mistakes - anyone who has been to school calls them such.

     

    Considering that what is precious to one is rubbish to you.

     

    Nope some is without doubt rubbish to all or most people who buy and read books.

     

    That sword cuts both ways my friend and I don't spectacularly care for anything that pertains to you either.

     

    Huh? Have you read my books and looked at my art then?

     

     You can't suppress everyone and the ones you can actually don't have to pay any attention to anything that you call rubbish.

     

    You really do not have a clue what you are talking about do you? But what the rant? Who has attacked you?

     

    My God man, who are you to say? Just who do you think you are anyway?

     

    Ermm, an ex professional editor, publisher, writer, artist, product designer, who now does it as a hobby to pass the time? Would you like my CV? Who are you to say I (in fact we) don't know what I/wewe are talking about?

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    anielblue wrote:

    My view is that anyone can publish whatever they like. I totally understand what Ron is saying but I reject it on the grounds that it is undemocratic.

     

    I was not aware that each person can have one vote to say if something is published or not.  Smiley Happy

     

    After all, people who cannot paint very well still try to sell their paintings.

     

    Very true, and I know many of them. Some can sell for up to £100000s, and some never sell any. Putting them up for sale does not mean they will sell. The reason being is some have no skill or talent and some have oddles of it. A bit like books ... Abstract puzzles me, though. A monkey can do it. Smiley Very Happy

     

    People who would put a cats' choir to shame still try to make a living out of singing.

     

    The keyword there is "try".

     

    His advice is best received by the 1 % of writers who have any hope of selling more than 1000 copies of their book.

     

    True, and for some reason very few people bother to promote their wares on Lulu in a way that can be comment on nowadays. Surely it's best to have a book commented on before it's published? Rather than a reviewer for some 10,000,000 circulation magazine ripping it to bits because the English is poor, or at worst, unreadable?

     

    All I am saying is don't expect to sell very well. The link you provided to the review of your book confirmed the opinion I had already formed: your work, in its current format, is unreadable.

     

    The sad fact is that he has been promoting his books in Lulu's forums for years.

     

    You may think your sentence structure is your unique style but most other people would find it alarming because, quite frankly, it is. You can't just terminate a sentence whenever you get bored with it. Well, you can but not many people are going to want to read such a book. Each sentence, paragraph and chapter of a book has a job to do and that job isn't to make the reader scratch his head.

     

    Keep writing the way you do if it makes you happy and if satisfies your need for self expression. Just don't expect the dollars to roll in any time soon.

     

    If you are truly happy with the status quo, and you are not just being bombastic, then anything we can say is just water off a duck's back.

     

    Obviously it is not considering his latest postings  ...

     

    One thing that some people do not realise is that a book is not just pages full of words, it's also a product and it should look like every product it's competing with and all those that came before it. Major publishing houses have a team of expensive staff just to ensure a book looks like a book on every page, that's not counting the editorial staff and proofreaders.

     

    The advice "look at a book" falls on deaf ears far too much.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    I am convinced that there are some people, from birth, who resent being "told what to do". Such useful advice as "Don't put your hand in fire" -  "This is how you spell your name, Johnny, every time" - "no, honestly, if you poke that lion it will eat you." Right through school and onwards through life. It's a shame really. They miss out on so much.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    Thats the most humble thing I think I've ever heard from you.

     

    Ron never boasts of his accomplishments to prove a point. He leaves it up to me to often point out he has done what he preaches.  Smiley Happy

     

    Thank you fory your time and allowing me a decent remark. I would much rather be friends but my book is finished to the best of my ability. You must understand, I have not the funds nor the dersire to pay the outragous amount of money to make a book acceptible. through the 400 dollar cover the 600 dollar editor,

     

    Some top selling classic books have very simple covers. Some even have just the title on. A decent cover can be created with a little thought, looking at classic covers, and listening to us.

     

    tcitr_classic.png (800×1170)

     

     

    (Gosh, that is big, sorry.)

     

    numerous pdf and word pricessing subscriptions,

     

    Subscriptions? I know it's the habit on the Cloud to now charge monthly for such things. But there are many just as good free alternatives to download.

     

    learning to format everything all on my own.

     

    You have done many books, you should have learned by now, and it is SELF-Publishing.

     

    Please remember, my project may be raw but it is all of my own making.

     

    That's irrelevant. Are you able to tell every potential buyer to forgive you because you are a self-publisher? No. It has to be right. They will see anyway via the Previews and simply not buy.

     

    Mistakes have been made but I can tell you that a craftsman may have set you down and tought him a trade but for me its been School of Hard Knocks.

     

    That's a poor excuse when some highly talented people within their professional fields are 100% self-trained.

     

    Please do realize, I've poored my heart and soul into this book

     

    Then make sure that it now looks like a book published by the major publishing houses. Self-publishing does not just mean slapping words down then sticking it through Lulu's Wizards.

     

    and after puchasing copies of my own in hopes of a formal book signing

     

    Huh? It does not work like that. You have to book venues, often at your own cost, and advertise them.

     

    I'm probably vested in 3 or 4 years worth of blood sweat and tears not to mention the thousands I've already spent on custom covers and editors. So,all I'm asking is that you cut me a litlle slack.

     

    I think over those years, we have.

     

    My books are published in PDF, E-PUB, MOBI, AND KINDLE. Publishing all of these formats through reputable companies is a testiment to my own ability to write, create, format, and market a story that is close to home and dear to my heart. I'm sorry you don't like it but I can tell you there is nothing in this world that I like better.

     

    Ermm, no it's not is they are self-published. Mobi is Kindle, BTW. PS: What about in print too?

     

    PPS: I would like to point out the handy built-in spellchecker the forum has.

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    Didn't you read the thread? The book has been edited by Annie Cosby autohr of Learning to Swim as an example. I paid a pretty penney to have the book edited by her. $600 dollars in fact. So, why do you keep saying that it hasn't been edited?

     

    Because you do? And you have also said you cannot afford such services. But I am very puzzled where you are coming from. I don't recall any one saying your books are poor. I only recall myself and Ron discussing the validity of the contents of one a few years ago.

  • did you really expect people to read all fo that?

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    Bolter1224 wrote:

    Didn't you read the thread? The book has been edited by Annie Cosby autohr of Learning to Swim as an example. I paid a pretty penney to have the book edited by her. $600 dollars in fact. So, why do you keep saying that it hasn't been edited?

     

    Here's a copy of this document for your records:

     

     


    I never said your book wasn't edited. I was responding to your general assertion that it didn't matter whether a book was edited or not. Your stance all along has been that if an author cannot afford an editor a potential reader should just overlook that and buy the book anyway, regardless of its quality.

     

    In any case, which book are you talking about? I've never mentioned any of your books by title and you have apparently five or six books published. Do I assume correctly that all of these have been professionally edited?

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    kevinlomas wrote:

    Didn't you read the thread? The book has been edited by Annie Cosby autohr of Learning to Swim as an example. I paid a pretty penney to have the book edited by her. $600 dollars in fact. So, why do you keep saying that it hasn't been edited?

     

    Because you do? And you have also said you cannot afford such services. But I am very puzzled where you are coming from. I don't recall any one saying your books are poor. I only recall myself and Ron discussing the validity of the contents of one a few years ago.


    That was his book about pyramids...or pyramieds, as he calls them.

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    By the way, I noticed that several of  your books is published by Tate Publishing.

     

    Their website claims...

     

    Tate Publishing was formed after Founders Richard & Rita Tate published their first book with a traditional, mainline royalty publishing company. They soon found that after investing many years of their lives into their work, it was no longer theirs. The rights were now the publisher's, and the majority of the royalties were going to the publisher. That's when the Tates set out to redefine what a mainline royalty publisher should be.

     

    This is either the rankest nonsense or the result of immense naivete on the part of the Tates. No reputable publisher would be able to usurp the rights of an author's book. The assignment of rights is spelled out in the initial contract. The same goes for the distribution of royalties. I have worked for a great many "mainline royalty" publishers and this has been invariably true. Either the publisher that the Tates supposedly worked with was an outright scam and they never bothered to read their contract---which does not augur well for their business acumen---or they are simply making this whole story up out of whole cloth in order to attract authors to their own company. 

     

    Looking Tate up on Editors and Predators I find them listed as a "subsidy publisher" (i.e. they operate on the vanity press model) and that they are "not recommended." 

     

    You may want to look further into this.

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • I'm really not sure that I care but thanks for the advice.

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