Some of The "Critics" on Lulu Need To Keep Their Opinions To Themselves!

Nothing's more annoying than logging onto Lulu and reading a crtique from some random, insensitive know-it-all about other people's work.  One person said that people need to stop publsihing so many books and start developing their characters.  Well sweetheart, not sure who specifically you were referring to, but you damn sure weren't referiing to me and you need to quit judging whoever it was you were judging.

 

GOD almighty gave me and everyone else who has a gift to write that gift.  YOU DID NOT!!!  When you become the gift giver, then  you get to tell the gifted how to use the gift. I let God guide the gift he gave me and that's where my inspiration and talent come from.  God's gifts are perfect and don't need any man's tweaking.  I have no problem developing my characters and I'm sure most gifted writers don't.  Sounds like you need to develop your own character a s a human being instead of criticizing how someone else develops a fictitious one.  Just saying.

Comments

  • Em_PressEm_Press Professor

    At Lulu, authors can disable reviews.

     

    They just need to click on the project title, scroll down to the bottom of the page and select the appropriate option.

     

     

     A citizen of the world.

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    Sounds like someone is a little too sensitive. Smiley Wink

     

    In any case, so long as a critique is courteous and is an honest attempt to offer constructive advice or criticism, any author worth their salt at least considers it. They may agree or they may not...that is certainly their option. The point is that to simply dismiss all criticism out of hand---or worse yet, take it as a personal affront---is not a hallmark of professionalism. I have been writing professionally for nearly 50 years and to this day I don't think that my work is so faultlessly perfect that it could not stand improvement. Which is where the objective critic (or, in my case at least, the objective editor) becomes invaluable.

     

    God may or may not have given you a talent for writing...but it would be the same thing he has done for any musician, composer, dancer, painter, sculptor or any other creative artist. That does not mean that these people do not have to practice in order to hone their craft nor does it mean that they are not in need of guidance from knowledgable instructors or are immune to criticism and advice.

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • oncewasoncewas Librarian

    lakeyagm

     

    You said

     

    One person said that people need to stop publishing so many books and start developing their characters.

     

    Why did you feel that this criticism (which could also be seen as advice) was directed at you? Was this posted in the forum or was it feedback on one of your books?

     

    No matter which, writing is an art and a skill and there is always room for improvement.

     

    You really do need the hide of an elephant to be successful in this game and yes, it is hard not to feel bad when people say negative things about your writing. There is always a positive side to every situation; perhaps use the anger you feel to hone your craft.

  • I think that she was just pointing out that there are a lot a nitpickers out there who make uneducated comment's when they couldn't develop of plot when writing and are incapable of producing anything of great value to the writing forum or else they wouold've. without a project to judge by people don't realize the intensity that it takes to finish such a creation and then watch the pidgins crap all over it.

     

    It's demeaning and I think she has a legitimate post. God knows I've said a few things in anger but the members of a hard nosed front liner writer with seemingly on-line respect should be quite and let someone vent for the first time. I personally still get that tinge of, "You wouldn't know greatness from a whole in the ground and now your polluting the waters with what could be construed as a personal attack on the writer themselves. They just love to piss people off. Get used to it.

     

    The fact that you've published a book should be well enough to separate someone who may have experience in constructive criticism but it just comes out an front to the author in general. I tell you dear author, this kind of crap never ends in some cases. Try to focus on the fact that they would probably run out of juice on the second or maybe even the third page before stripping the pager form the printer and discarding it with the rest of his/her trash bin rubbish.

     

    On the flip side, just because you've finished book doesn't give you the right to criticisms of others for their ow creativity. If everyone in these forms could just see some good. A light at the end of the tunnel with some semblance of hope. I guess instead of the hard line dictatorship, and that we should be building each other up, sharing with each other and kindly building each other up. Not tearing people down. KRB.CRC

  • I'm going to agree with Ron and Daniel here:

     

    When we point out errors and problems, so long as we do it respectfully and with an eye towards correcting the issue, we are doing others a favor. Please feel free -- any of you -- to point to anything whatsoever that you feel is an error, or is in any way deficient, in my works.

     

    I may not change everything that you point out; I may not even agree with you that its a deficiency. I had a chat with a couple of folks who felt that I was leaving too much white space on chapter headings, and I respectfully disagree. But the fact that we had the chat means that I had to go and look at the issue. I had to think about it; I had to compare with other published works, and I had to ask if this was the right style choice for me. You all did me a favor in pointing to the issue.

     

    The difference here is that we must receive criticism in the right spirit. If someone says, "Your characters are thin and wooden" and we hear "You are an idiot who should not be permitted to write" then the problem is in our ears. We should be hearing, "You need to work on this area and improve the characters, in my opinion."

     

    And we must always understand that the opinions of others are not binding upon us. If we wish to publish agrammatical word salad, then so be it. But we cannot then complain if our sales are lacking.


  • Bolter1224 wrote:

    I think that she was just pointing out that there are a lot a nitpickers out there who make uneducated comment's when they couldn't develop of plot when writing and are incapable of producing anything of great value to the writing forum or else they wouold've. without a project to judge by people don't realize the intensity that it takes to finish such a creation and then watch the pidgins crap all over it.

     

    It's demeaning and I think she has a legitimate post. God knows I've said a few things in anger but the members of a hard nosed front liner writer with seemingly on-line respect should be quite and let someone vent for the first time. I personally still get that tinge of, "You wouldn't know greatness from a whole in the ground and now your polluting the waters with what could be construed as a personal attack on the writer themselves. They just love to piss people off. Get used to it.

     

    The fact that you've published a book should be well enough to separate someone who may have experience in constructive criticism but it just comes out an front to the author in general. I tell you dear author, this kind of crap never ends in some cases. Try to focus on the fact that they would probably run out of juice on the second or maybe even the third page before stripping the pager form the printer and discarding it with the rest of his/her trash bin rubbish.

     

    On the flip side, just because you've finished book doesn't give you the right to criticisms of others for their ow creativity. If everyone in these forms could just see some good. A light at the end of the tunnel with some semblance of hope. I guess instead of the hard line dictatorship, and that we should be building each other up, sharing with each other and kindly building each other up. Not tearing people down. KRB.CRC


    You have a great point that all criticism needs to be constructive.

     

    And we really should try to build each other up and offer hints and tips and suggestions.

     

    I started a thread in the "Author Workshop" called "Writing 101" just so that experienced writers such as yourself could offer helpful advice about writing. Please feel free to post in that thread, especially any helpful tips and techniques that you think would benefit others.

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    Bolter1224 wrote (in part):

     

    The fact that you've published a book should be well enough to separate someone who may have experience in constructive criticism but it just comes out an front to the author in general.

     

    On the flip side, just because you've finished book doesn't give you the right to criticisms of others for their ow creativity. 


    There are really only two ways to respond to criticism, and one might term these "professional" and "nonprofessional."

     

    In the first case, the author either accepts the criticism for what it is worth or ignores it. In either instance, there is no communication between author and critic.

     

    In the second case, the author takes it all as a personal attack, argues with the critic (the worst mistake anyone can make) and ultimately makes themselves look pretty petty and overly defensive.

     

    As a professional author with some modest success I have had my share of pans and raves. If the former is meant seriously, you take it seriously. No one is perfect and perhaps there is a suggestion or idea that might make your next book even better. The only possible reason to ever respond to a negative review is if there might have been a factual error made. And in this case I emphasize "factual"...which is not the same as difference of opinion. 

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    Skoob_Ym wrote:

    Bolter1224 wrote:

    I think that she was just pointing out that there are a lot a nitpickers out there who make uneducated comment's when they couldn't develop of plot when writing and are incapable of producing anything of great value to the writing forum or else they wouold've. 

     

    This is a pretty universal condemnation of critics, especially by neo-authors who have had a hard time with criticism, but it really doesn't make much sense. Let me ask this: does the coach of a successful sports team or Olympic athlete have themselves to be a world-class athlete? I think that history might clearly suggest that the answer is "no."

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • But what of the home town high school baseball team where the children who are all of their little league age exhibit exceptional talent. Difference is? They haven't built a stadium for the players and fill the seats with millions of fans topping off every single team from every single city. The difference is, the people playing high school ball games are just as emotional crowd of parents as there are rabid fans of very well paid team members across the American, and National Leagues alike.

     

    There are just as many writers as there are professional athletes but only a hand full of well known aurthors who do no wrong are in excistance. It just costs of small fortune that most people don't have to get there. Sponsors and the like. Even a that they have just as much fun doing it and show just as much talent at doing it as the players who get paid, but who's going to pay for a book that they've never heard of anybody else reading.

     

     It's like word of mouth is paramount in book world society and when you degrade start up people's creative accomplishments that relate to those little home town pee-wee baseball games played at the city park after school as being just as important. A lot of effort is put into these events and emotions can become heated when criticism is abound.

     

    Poor sportsmanship is what causes hate and discontent and in that I think this is the root of our policy here on lulu. The books aren't selling anyway because its very hard to get noticed. Most people wouldn't know how to find you book and if they did wouldn't pay for it because you never know what your going to get from an Indie Writer. And, as stated before, "Nobody else has said anything about it except for the before mentioned ground pounding renegades.

     

    They feel like they're commited to a responsibility to make stories fit into these categories instead of recognizing the fact that most people in here are amatures and are just fortumate enough to have been able to accomplish a fully fledged novel and are only looking to share what they've created with the world. Nothing more, Nothing less. There is definitly a learning curb though. One that we must go though and if accomplished which says a lot about a persons character. At least to me it does anyway.

     

    Maybe you could find a forum for people who have exceptional reviews and lots of best selling books where you could compete at your own level instead of breaking everybodies hard work into something less criticle. It's like that guy on, "Storage Wars" who keeps bidding up people with real bills and real families. Not for the sake of making money but just for the act of doing something dastardly. KRB.CRC

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    Bolter1224 wrote:

     

    They feel like they're commited to a responsibility to make stories fit into these categories instead of recognizing the fact that most people in here are amatures and are just fortumate enough to have been able to accomplish a fully fledged novel and are only looking to share what they've created with the world. Nothing more, Nothing less. There is definitly a learning curb though. One that we must go though and if accomplished which says a lot about a persons character. At least to me it does anyway.


    That's really the gist of the problem.

     

    When an "amateur" starts selling their work alongside professionally published books are they really any longer amateurs? For that matter, if they are asking money for their books at all, are they amateurs?

     

    Of course, there is a "learning curb," but someone who is paying for a book should rightly expect quality for their money---especially if they are spending as much as they would for a professionally published book. It is wrong to expect them to have to make special allowances for an author's lack of experience. Are you really suggesting that is fair that someone who has just paid for a book as much as they would for one from a traditional publisher to have to overlook all the mistakes the author made just because they are a beginner?

     

    Share your creation with the world all you want...but when you start charging people money for that priviledge, you undertake the responsibility of providing a quality product.

     

    I have used this analogy before and I see no reason not to use it again: would you purchase a chair from a woodworker who said, "I know this chair costs as much as one from an experienced, professional woodworker but I'm just a beginner so I expect you to overlook all of my mistakes---the uneven legs, the dripping glue, the unsanded surfaces, the loose joints and the sticky paint...all to say nothing of some physical and emotional problems that make it difficult for me to work---and just give me your money anyway." I suspect you would not do this.

     

    Likewise, if an author is selling their book then they have a responsibility to make their book as professional as they possibly can...and sometimes this means listening very closely to the advice and criticism of more experienced authors.

     

     

     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • So, you say your a professional and nobody should be allowed to sell books but you? Even if you just want to publish a book for your family it ends up on Amazon. anyway. So what would you suggest people do? Build to the best of their ability, and then, even if practicle and funtional not acceptable because it wasn't created by you? Now that's egotistical If I've ever heard it. 

     

    http://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28661

     

    Guess what? I'm not going to stop selling. Period...

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    Bolter1224 wrote:

    So, you say your a professional and nobody should be allowed to sell books but you? Even if you just want to publish a book for your family it ends up on Amazon. anyway. So what would you suggest people do? Build to the best of their ability, and then, even if practicle and funtional not acceptable because it wasn't created by you? Now that's egotistical If I've ever heard it. 

     

    http://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28661

     

    Guess what? I'm not going to stop selling. Period...


    Now whoever in the world ever said that no one else but me should be allowed to sell books? What I am saying (and let's see if I can make myself even clearer than before) is that if you are expecting people to pay as much money for your book as they would for one that was published professionally than it behooves you to offer a product that is of equal quality. For an author to expect people to make allowances for their inexperience and to overlook their mistakes while still asking them to pay full price for a book is not, in my opinion, very ethical.

     

    "I know I am asking you to pay as much money for my book as you would for one from a bookstore, and I know my book is filled with misspellings, bad grammar and every other imaginable mistake, but please overlook all of that because I'm just a beginner and give me your money anyway."

     

    Please re-read my analogy with the woodworker.

     

    With POD and ebooks anyone can get "published"---but until your work is of the same quality as that being published professionally, give it away or sell it at cost. But as soon as you start asking someone to pay for your book as much as they would for a traditionally published one, it is disingenuous at best to offer a product that is of less quality than they'd get from a traditional publisher. If you would not make allowances for the inexperienced woodworker who wants to charge you as much for his chair as you would pay for one made by an experienced craftsman, then you should not expect people to do the same with books.

     

    Every author has to begin somewhere and it is the rare first-time author---even the most famous and professional---whose first published work is their best. All authors grow and improve. But (and this brings us back to the original topic of this thread) they don't do this by working in a vacuum, convinced that every word they write is perfect. Instead, they work with knowledgeable editors who help them make their books as good as they can possibly be...and they listen to critics once their book has been published. And with all of this input each book they publish gets better. As you say, they build to the best of their ability---but they do this with help, advice and criticism. They don't just knock off a book and print the first draft.

     

    I understand perfectly well that not every author can afford professional editing...but that doesn't really change anything. As soon as you start selling your book it takes it out of the realm of the hobbyist---no matter how talented that hobbyist might be--and into that of the professional. And you take on the responsibility of selling a product that is of a quality a reader would expect from a professional. 

     

    And, no, a book that you might have published privately doesn't automatically wind up on Amazon (I have many books that I have put together strictly for the enjoyment of friends that are accessible only by whom I choose). For instance, if a book is strictly for friends and family, there is no need to obtain an ISBN for it.

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/

  • Bolter1224 wrote:

    So, you say your a professional and nobody should be allowed to sell books but you? Even if you just want to publish a book for your family it ends up on Amazon. anyway. So what would you suggest people do? Build to the best of their ability, and then, even if practicle and funtional not acceptable because it wasn't created by you? Now that's egotistical If I've ever heard it. 

     

    http://forums.onlinebookclub.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28661

     

    Guess what? I'm not going to stop selling. Period...


    I don't think anyone here says that you should stop selling books.

     

    I think that what everyone here is saying is that the books we sell need to be made to the best of our abilities, and that we need to use every means available to stretch our abilities and to expand them. We owe it to the reader to produce a work that is as good as they could get from a commercial publisher, or as close as we can make it.

     

    That obligation includes listening to critics, even harsh critics, and taking the advice of people who have more experience and more skill.

     

    To use Ron's woodworking analogy: If a amateur woodworker made a poor chair, and a skilled woodworker saw it, and he said, "If I were you, I'd sand the joints to make them fit better, then wipe away the excess glue, and add a finishing nail here, where it won't show..." -- Tell me: Wouldn't the amateur be a fool to ignore that advice?

     

    And so it is with books...

  • So, I think it goes without saying that you think your book is worthy of sometthing that mine is not. Your playing with fire here.What difference does it make to you who writes or published what? If it makes the author happy then people of your caliber should disband and stop saying that your books are any more important than should I say, a handicap person. It's like in golf, but the clubs, balls, fairways, tee's, golfing gloves and shoes which all cost the same as the pros outfits except their stuff is paid for by sponsors. But, there are handicaps...

     

    Who ever sponsors a writer for goodness sakes. Thsi regime that I've been talking about would have you buy the course before you could play a round. It costs us just as much for us to write, edit, format, market, and sell a bashed in Indie Book and it costs us the just same as the big league hitters so why shouldn't be get paid the same. Some people need the ladies Tee, mulligans, water shots, a terrible hook to the right but they still deserve a handicap.

     

    How many mentally ill people finish a book and I think that these stories are a base. A foundation for insperation that just might be given to those lost souls a fair shake. If a person isn't fond of a certain type fo object then let the chips fall where they may. Books about real world places and based on real world experiances whether or not you muts who are so eager to discredit actually have no experiance at all as a writer.

     

    It would cost me $4000 to gussy up by book the way you want it. The good new is? I'm not buying. Maybe if I could. But, I can't. I still have the right to a publication. All of my books are on free-ebooks.nt free for the taking.  That's a lot less than Mr. Miller sells his books for but, once again the perverbial carpenters aprentice subjuct must rear its ugly head. Right Mr. Miller? This type of behavior is childish and seems to be senonimous with being dropped as a baby.

  • This was not a review I received personally.  I was googling the site and it came up in the results.  I'm not always looking for an "answer" when I post.  Sometimes I'm just venting, but thanks.  BTW is there a way to make your posts private?


  • Bolter1224 wrote:

    So, I think it goes without saying that you think your book is worthy of sometthing that mine is not.

    ______________________________________________________________________________

     

    I don't think anyone has said that. No book ever published has been perfect.

     

    Criticism is just a step in the path towards a perfect book.

     

    If you are happy with your books, there is no reason for you to change them.

  • Thanks for your reply.  I wish lulu had a privacy setting so that you could post what you wanted to and not have comments from 16 unwelcomed jerks who need to get a **bleep**ing life and mind their own damn business!  You answer is the only one I don't mind even though I was not looking for answers.  All these jerks who answered are the reason I keep to myself and my own friends in real life.  I was not asking for their opinions but I don't mind yours.  I have been writing since I was 12 and I have been publishing on lulu since 2007.  I don't hink I know it all but I'm over the people who do like the other 16 who answered.  They can take a long walk.  God bless!


  • Skoob_Ym wrote:

    Bolter1224 wrote:

    So, I think it goes without saying that you think your book is worthy of sometthing that mine is not.

    ______________________________________________________________________________

     

    I don't think anyone has said that. No book ever published has been perfect.

     

    Criticism is just a step in the path towards a perfect book.

     

    If you are happy with your books, there is no reason for you to change them.


    my point exactly. The book is finished and I'm not changing it. and by the way, thank you for allowing me that right. 

  • oncewasoncewas Librarian

    lakeyagm said:

     

    Thanks for your reply.  I wish lulu had a privacy setting so that you could post what you wanted to and not have comments from 16 unwelcomed jerks who need to get a **bleep**ing life and mind their own damn business!  You answer is the only one I don't mind even though I was not looking for answers.  All these jerks who answered are the reason I keep to myself and my own friends in real life.  I was not asking for their opinions but I don't mind yours.  I have been writing since I was 12 and I have been publishing on lulu since 2007.  I don't hink I know it all but I'm over the people who do like the other 16 who answered.  They can take a long walk.  God bless!

     

    You don't get to 'vent' on here and call people jerks. Who do you think you are?

     

    You must be very unsophisticated if you think you can make a private post to a forum. What would be the point? A forum is a public space, not a private one.

     

    If you have been writing since you were 12 and publishing since 2007 I guess that makes you an adult now. Try to behave like one.

  • We encourage spirited conversation and vigorous debate, but this conversation is bordering on personal attack and is in violation of our community usage guidelines.

     

    As such, this thread is now closed.

     

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