Question on the Copyright Page

Hello Everyone,

 

I understand that if I get a free ISBN from Lulu then I can say that Lulu is the publisher. However, in the copyright section, what shall I put as information after the copyright claim? do I have to include Lulu address and web site or use my own. I do not have a web site so is it OK to just include an Email address.

Any help and advice in this regard?

 

Thank You in advance

Comments

  • You do not have to enter anything about Lulu or your email address.

     

    The bare minimum is your author name and the year of copyright, the 

    ISBN and a short statement asserting your rights as the copyright holder. This could

    be as simple as All Rights Reserved

     

    For more information please see

     

    http://connect.lulu.com/t5/Publishing-Process/How-do-I-set-a-Copyright-License-for-my-work/ta-p/33480

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    Legally, there is no need to indicate copyright in your book. According the US Copyright Office, "U.S. law no longer requires the use of a copyright notice, although placing it on your work is often beneficial." I would definitely pay attention to the last part of that sentence. 

     

    For instance, the USCO goes onto explain that "Copyright is a form of protection provided by U.S. law to authors of 'original works of authorship.' When a work is published under the authority of the copyright owner... a notice of copyright may be placed on all publicly distributed copies or phonorecords. The use of the notice is the responsibility of the copyright owner and does not require permission from, or registration with, the Copyright Office. Use of the notice informs the public that a work is protected by copyright, identifies the copyright owner, and shows the year of first publication. Furthermore, in the event that a work is infringed, if the work carries a proper notice, the court will not give any weight to a defendant’s use of an innocent infringement defense—that is, to a claim that the defendant did not realize that the work was protected. An innocent infringement defense can result in a reduction in damages that the copyright owner would otherwise receive."

     

    The notice that the USCO refers to would be in this form: © 2015 Franklin P. Author (you can also substitute the word "copyright" or the abbreviation "copr." for the © symbol).

     

    There is no need for anything else or any other declaration.

     

    Of course, the absolute safest thing to do would be to formally register your copyright (it costs only---the last time I looked---$35 and is a very simple process). This not only gives you the best protection, it is the only way you can sue for copyright infringement in court.

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • You may wish to be more detailed on your assertion of rights. You will see many "boilerplate" statements of rights on the copyright pages of other books, for example.

     

    You may also wish to mention Lulu as a source for the books, so that someone who wants more copies can buy them through Lulu...

     

    "available through Lulu.Com"

     

    Just a thought. But that's optional. You needn't mention them at all.

  • potetjppotetjp Teacher

    You have to type "@ 2015 Your Name" on the copyright page as well as the ISBN.

    Such is the bare minimum.

    I advise you to enter as much information as possible on this page, a sort of identity-kit of your book. These data are very useful for libraries, bookstores and scholars, whatever the book. The general public couldn't care less.

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    Skoob_Ym wrote:

    You may wish to be more detailed on your assertion of rights. You will see many "boilerplate" statements of rights on the copyright pages of other books, for example.

     

    ----------------------

    Any "assertion" of rights does not replace the specific rights guaranteed by copyright.
    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    potetjp wrote:

    You have to type "@ 2015 Your Name" on the copyright page as well as the ISBN.

    Such is the bare minimum.

    I advise you to enter as much information as possible on this page, a sort of identity-kit of your book. These data are very useful for libraries, bookstores and scholars, whatever the book. The general public couldn't care less.


    The book's ISBN is not a requirement for copyright notification. However, as you say, it is extremely useful for libraries and bookstores, but for those purposes that is the only additional information that is really necessary.Given that, it is entirely optional.

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/

  • Ron Miller wrote:

    Skoob_Ym wrote:

    You may wish to be more detailed on your assertion of rights. You will see many "boilerplate" statements of rights on the copyright pages of other books, for example.

     

    ----------------------

    Any "assertion" of rights does not replace the specific rights guaranteed by copyright.

    Right you are. The hope, in a more detailed assertion, would be to avoid any dispute about any implied waiving of rights.

     

    To my understanding, 99% of the law is in prevention.

  • potetjppotetjp Teacher

    Just have a look at the copyright page of any Penguin paperback, and you'll see what you have to do  for  a novel.

  • potetjppotetjp Teacher

    Ron Miller a écrit :

    The book's ISBN is not a requirement for copyright notification. However, as you say, it is extremely useful for libraries and bookstores, but for those purposes that is the only additional information that is really necessary.Given that, it is entirely optional.


    Perhaps in the US, but it must be required everywhere else in the world in so far as all the books I have bear their ISBN on the copyright page.  The best is to conform to international usage to be on the safe side.

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    potetjp wrote:

    Ron Miller a écrit :

    The book's ISBN is not a requirement for copyright notification. However, as you say, it is extremely useful for libraries and bookstores, but for those purposes that is the only additional information that is really necessary.Given that, it is entirely optional.


    Perhaps in the US, but it must be required everywhere else in the world in so far as all the books I have bear their ISBN on the copyright page.  The best is to conform to international usage to be on the safe side.


    You are right: most books (even in the US) include the ISBN number on the copyright page. But this is entirely a convenience for the publishers and booksellers and is not connected to copyright either here or abroad. Being required to include an ISBN would mean that only commercially-published works could be copyrighted...and this is not the case.

     

    In fact, UK copyright requirements are almost identical to those of the US...and, indeed, pretty much every nation signatory to the Berne Convention. There may be internal differences, but so long as a work contains the © symbol, date and author's name, its copyright is recognized universally.

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • oncewasoncewas Librarian

    This is what Lulu says about ISBNs and print books:

     

    Book must have a Copyright page with your correct 13-digit ISBN/EAN and a copyright notice. The Copyright page must come after the Title page. Example:

     

    © 2014 Lulu Author. All rights reserved.
    ISBN 978-1-234-56789-1

     

    Given that people are using ISBNs so that their books can go into distribution I would be inclined to follow Lulu's advice. Even if it is technically possible not to include the ISBN why not take the path of least resistance and be certain that your book will meet distribution criteria.

     

    For more information refer to this web page

    http://connect.lulu.com/t5/ISBN-Distribution/Mandatory-Print-Book-Distribution-Requirements/ta-p/33632

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    danielblue wrote:

    This is what Lulu says about ISBNs and print books:

     

    Book must have a Copyright page with your correct 13-digit ISBN/EAN and a copyright notice. The Copyright page must come after the Title page. Example:

     

    © 2014 Lulu Author. All rights reserved.
    ISBN 978-1-234-56789-1

     

    Given that people are using ISBNs so that their books can go into distribution I would be inclined to follow Lulu's advice. Even if it is technically possible not to include the ISBN why not take the path of least resistance and be certain that your book will meet distribution criteria.

     

    For more information refer to this web page

    http://connect.lulu.com/t5/ISBN-Distribution/Mandatory-Print-Book-Distribution-Requirements/ta-p/33632


    I would follow Lulu's advice, too. 

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • potetjppotetjp Teacher
    Bravo!
  • potetjppotetjp Teacher

    Ron Miller a écrit :

    You are right: most books (even in the US) include the ISBN number on the copyright page. But this is entirely a convenience for the publishers and booksellers and is not connected to copyright either here or abroad. Being required to include an ISBN would mean that only commercially-published works could be copyrighted...and this is not the case.

     

    In fact, UK copyright requirements are almost identical to those of the US...and, indeed, pretty much every nation signatory to the Berne Convention. There may be internal differences, but so long as a work contains the © symbol, date and author's name, its copyright is recognized universally.


    Frankly I find it curious that the Berne convention did not require to associate the statement of copyright with the ISBN to make it specific. Could this mean that the ISBN was invented or enforced later than the Berne convention?

    If you take a xeroxcopy of the copyright page without the ISBN, what could prove Mr. So-and-So has copyrighted the book in question?

  • Just KevinJust Kevin Lulu Genius

    You may also wish to mention Lulu as a source for the books, so that someone who wants more copies can buy them through Lulu...

     

    But if it has an ISBN they can use that. Also, if it has an ISBN it will also be at least listed at the household name Amazon. I doubt Amazon offer a 'volume' discount though, but often their shipping is free.

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    potetjp wrote:

    Ron Miller a écrit :

    You are right: most books (even in the US) include the ISBN number on the copyright page. But this is entirely a convenience for the publishers and booksellers and is not connected to copyright either here or abroad. Being required to include an ISBN would mean that only commercially-published works could be copyrighted...and this is not the case.

     

    In fact, UK copyright requirements are almost identical to those of the US...and, indeed, pretty much every nation signatory to the Berne Convention. There may be internal differences, but so long as a work contains the © symbol, date and author's name, its copyright is recognized universally.


    Frankly I find it curious that the Berne convention did not require to associate the statement of copyright with the ISBN to make it specific. Could this mean that the ISBN was invented or enforced later than the Berne convention?

    If you take a xeroxcopy of the copyright page without the ISBN, what could prove Mr. So-and-So has copyrighted the book in question?

    The ISBN is a purely commercial invention that was created (ca. 1965 by bookseller W.H. Smith) to make ordering and cataloging books easier. It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with copyright....which is one of the reasons it is not part of the Berne Convention---and can certainly not be "enforced." One important reason for this is that it is not necessary to have something formally published in order for it to be copyrighted...it only has to exist in some fixed form. For example, a book or painting is legally copyrighted (in the US and the UK as well as in most other nations) as soon as it has been completed. There is no need to formally register it (though it is a good idea to do so). By the same token, you are free to print as many copies of your copyrighted book...and even sell it if you want...without having an ISBN attached. Not having an ISBN, however, can place considerable limitations on getting a book distributed either through online dealers or brick and mortar bookstores (actually, many independent bookstores are perfectly willing to carry self-published books that have no ISBN). But that is a purely commercial worry and not one that has any proper place in copyright concerns. 
    There is an International ISBN Agency, but it is essentially an industry-created, non-governmental organization that is an entirely separate entity from national copyright offices.
    To answer your question, just because a book has an ISBN doesn't mean it has any claim to a copyright. An ISBN is essentially only part of a standardized cataloging system (the number just identifies the country of origin, the publisher and the specific book). If you were to take a Xerox of a copyright page, the only thing that would have any bearing in court would be the copyright notice itself. The ISBN by itself would prove nothing.

     

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • potetjppotetjp Teacher

    Thanks a lot for your remarkable explanation , Ron Miller.

    Yet, the fact remains that if you make a xerox copy of a copyright page without the ISBN, this copyright holds true for all the books by the same author.

    To prove that it is the copyright on such and such book, you need to xerox the title page, too, then obtain a special certificate stating that the copyright page is the verso of the title page in the original and no other's.  Everybody can imagine the bother just because of this negligence.

     

  • potetjppotetjp Teacher

    When I send my legal-deposit copy to the Bibliothèque Nationale de France (BNF), I have to join a form in triplicate. Among the data to be entered in this form is the ISBN. One of the triplicates is returned with the BNF number stuck on it. I am not sure a book without an ISBN would be accepted because I remember sending them a typed study, about a quarter of a century ago, and they returned it stating they couldn't legally keep such private publications.

  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    potetjp wrote:

    Thanks a lot for your remarkable explanation , Ron Miller.

    Yet, the fact remains that if you make a xerox copy of a copyright page without the ISBN, this copyright holds true for all the books by the same author.

     

    No. The copyright applies only to the book to which the copyright was attached. If you were to walk into a lawyer's office and only have a sheet of paper in your hand that said "Copyright (c) 2015 Joe Author" and nothing else, claiming that this applied to every book you ever wrote you would be tossed out. You would have to arrive with the entire book in hand. Even a Xerox of a copyright page with an ISBN included would be insufficient. After all, two books can have exactly the same title since titles cannot be copyrighted. For instance, I have a book out right now called The Art of Space. It is about all the artists who have depicted space and space travel in their work. There is another book also called The Art of Space. It is about interior decoration. All I can say, using the ISBN information, is that another book has the same title as mine...and that is all.

     

    But let's say someone copied the contents of my book but issued it under an entirely different title. My having a copyright page with the ISBN of my book would establish nothing.

     

    To prove that it is the copyright on such and such book, you need to xerox the title page, too, then obtain a special certificate stating that the copyright page is the verso of the title page in the original and no other's.  Everybody can imagine the bother just because of this negligence.

     

    This is only a matter of convenience, not legal requirements. The title of the book on the copyright page would serve the same purpose (as it did for all the decades before the 1970s, when ISBNs were introduced). Actually, if a copyright infringement were to go to court, the only thing that would count would not be just a copy of the entire book but a registration of the copyright with the US Copyright Office (or its equivalent in whatever country the suit was being filed).

     


    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • Ron MillerRon Miller Professor

    potetjp wrote:

    When I send my legal-deposit copy to the Bibliothèque Nationale de France (BNF), I have to join a form in triplicate. Among the data to be entered in this form is the ISBN. One of the triplicates is returned with the BNF number stuck on it. I am not sure a book without an ISBN would be accepted because I remember sending them a typed study, about a quarter of a century ago, and they returned it stating they couldn't legally keep such private publications.


    So far as I can determine, an ISBN is not a requirement for copyright in France. As in the US, in France "Copyright arises automatically by the mere act of creation. To qualify for protection, no registration is required" or, in the words of France's copyright code, "The author of a work of the mind shall enjoy in that work, by the mere fact of its creation, an exclusive incorporeal property right which shall be enforceable against all persons."

     

    Unlike the US, however, with the registration offered by the Copyright Office, in France "It is however recommended to proceed with some sort of filing (for example, via an enveloppe Soleau or with a bailiff) so as to evidence the date of creation of the work." This could be the Office of Literary and Artistic Property or the BNF.

     

    Here's the French IP Code in its entirety file:///C:/Users/blackcat/Downloads/Code_35.pdf

    __________________________________________
    Black Cat Studios http://www.black-cat-studios.com/
  • potetjppotetjp Teacher

    Thanks a lot for your two answers, Ron Miller.

  • potetjppotetjp Teacher

    Ron Miller a écrit :

    So far as I can determine, an ISBN is not a requirement for copyright in France. As in the US, in France "Copyright "It is however recommended to proceed with some sort of filing (for example, via an enveloppe Soleau or with a bailiff) so as to evidence the date of creation of the work." This could be the Office of Literary and Artistic Property or the BNF.

     

    Here's the French IP Code in its entirety file:///C:/Users/blackcat/Downloads/Code_35.pdf


    A long time ago, I simply put my manuscript in a sealed envelope, asked the post-office clerk to seal it also with their scotch La Poste band, and sent the package to myself as registred mail with receipt. It goes without saying that I kept the envelope unopened.I also kept the receipt signed by myself after it was returned. This procedure  is cheaper and as legal as the enveloppe Soleau.

  • If I may: We seem to be mixing and matching several issues:

     

    1.) The copyright itself exists when the document is created. This, I believe, is law in most nations.

     

    2.) The document must be marked with a copyright notice ( (c) 2015 by John Q. Author) in order to prevent innocent infringement.

     

    It should also state an ISBN, to distinguish specifically what is under copyright, but need not as a point of law.

     

    3.) The registration of a copyright may or may not link to an ISBN, but the copyright itself exists regardless of registration.

     

    4.) Registration of copyright, with or without ISBN, absolutely establishes ownership of the contents.

     

    5.) Methods of registration vary; some nations recognize the sealed envelope technique; the US does not. However, in distinguishing two claims with respect to registration priority, a sealed envelope may provide evidence of having done earlier work.

     

    If one were to sue for infringement under US law, one would need to demonstrate registration of the copyright. A sealed envelope would not provide a basis for a suit.

     

    6.) In general, for a copyright page to provide more information is better than to provide less information.

     

    I am not a lawyer; this is not advice.

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